Development Updates

[johnparker007]

This will be a somewhat disappointing announcement, but I believe I have to drop MFME support from the Arcade Simulator project.

It cannot be installed as part of Arcade Simulator, so that would mean that someone would download say an Arcade layout of a Blackpool arcade from the 90s - and the coin pushers, video games, crane machines would work... but the fruit machines wouldn't - which really kinda breaks the whole thing.

I will have a think, I suspect it's going to mean using MAME for fruit machine emulation, which means we'll be losing a lot of techs - but, that is what I have been told, so there we have it!  

Sorry folks, as I really wanted to help keep MFME alive and moving forward into new realms, but it is not to be.

[vectra666]

5 minutes ago, johnparker007 said:

This will be a somewhat disappointing announcement, but I believe I have to drop MFME support from the Arcade Simulator project.

It cannot be installed as part of Arcade Simulator, so that would mean that someone would download say an Arcade layout of a Blackpool arcade from the 90s - and the coin pushers, video games, crane machines would work... but the fruit machines wouldn't - which really kinda breaks the whole thing.

I will have a think, I suspect it's going to mean using MAME for fruit machine emulation, which means we'll be losing a lot of techs - but, that is what I have been told, so there we have it!  

Sorry folks, as I really wanted to help keep MFME alive and moving forward into new realms, but it is not to be.

Why have you got to drop it is it breaking any rules? I thought mfme had some of the MAME coding within as when v5 was released wizard had to thank various members of mame and their code

[Reg]

13 minutes ago, johnparker007 said:

Sorry folks, as I really wanted to help keep MFME alive and moving forward into new realms, but it is not to be.

For both sides of the story, @johnparker007 posted about including MFME in the build and such, my response was this...

Chris was very precious for his emulator and knowing the pain that was caused years ago with the MAME blow up and I need to sleep at night with what happens.

There is no reason why the project cannot still use MFME, but no, a huge U-Turn is being made and to all intents and purposes the toys are being thrown out the pram here because there is seperation.

Much the same way when we used to run older versions of MFME we needed to intstall the runtime for DX9.

Much the same way that when we play emulators, we run on an operating system such as Windows that is already present.

Good luck with your project - I am sorry that we are seeing a different version of you now you are not gettiing what you want.

If at any point you had made a statement saying that you would require MFME to be part of your install, this would have come out sooner.

Fact is - you don't - and you are just stopping support because people will have to download it from here.

It should make no difference really to what you are doing, you have enough ( and will have enough ) glory to on release - it's not an all in one package and clearly too much to have - oh and you need this as a dependancy.

I hope that you refund all members that have supported the costs, you can keep my donation BTW, I knew it was a risky one but I also was not being strung along.

Depending on your reaction to this @johnparker007 where you are being unreasonable in my opinon to the membership will depend on if I close this area over the next few days.

[Mort]

This is a shame this project has hit a rocky patch. I think it's amazing what you are doing here with your project @johnparker007 and I have a huge respect for your abilities and am very thankful that you are active in the FME scene to move things forward like this. FME is dependant upon special people like you and Wizard, Dialtone, Guitar etc. to drive things forward from a coding, feature and experience perspective.

I also completely agree with what Reg is saying here, and fully understand the reasons behind it. 

I only ask that you take the time to move on from the frustration you feel at the moment with regard this separation of MFME and that whilst I understand it is in conflict with your strive for perfection that hopefully in time you can accept those reasons and find a way to compromise on this issue.

[slasher]

This is terrible news, especially with the project being so far on.

Would it be feasible to have a setting whereby you could select the MFME installed path? Would that be ok from all sides?

 

[serene02]

And that’s me done with fme, so sad to see this.  John Parker is  really good friend of mine.  His skillset is just unbelievable.  What a chance we had to see something quite outstanding.

John Parker was pretty much the reason for Chris to come back to the table with mfme.

J

Anyway please remove my account when possible, I just can’t be a part of DIF any longer.

Peace to all.

[Reg]

3 minutes ago, slasher said:

This is terrible news, especially with the project being so far on.

Would it be feasible to have a setting whereby you could select the MFME installed path? Would that be ok from all sides?

That would work.

2 minutes ago, A:E said:

John Parker was pretty much the reason for Chris to come back to the table with mfme.

I am not sure where you get that idea ?

I know why Chris did come back and that does not mirror what he told me.

Anyway - account will be closed - as per T&C on this website - accounts are not removed.

[dondplayer]

7 minutes ago, slasher said:

Would it be feasible to have a setting whereby you could select the MFME installed path?

 

Good thinking 

[Zippy]

There are still a hell of a lot of brilliant minds on here, there must be a workaround. Even with Chris gone there has been a great continuance from many on here.

I know we haven't seen eye to eye recently @A:E but don't go mate, we need thought and unity right now. I am very disappointed too but life wouldn't be life without challenges to overcome.

Quote Bryan Ferry 'Let's stick together'.

[andy-1]

Hope you continue with your excellent work lohnparker and there is a compromise in terms of MFME.

As Slasher says could MFME not be a selected option or used as a plugin to work alongside your arcade project.

MFME was Wizards project and it's one that I and many others will always be thankful for.

[vectra666]

i did know for a fact wizard wasn't entertaining the idea of online play this was not he intentions mfme wise,he didn't like online, although i will admit when guitars "project amber" went online it breathed fresh air and it evolved the way we played the emulations infact i was playing more fme than creating it was hard to pull away from the challenges of online play.

personally i think this is the way forward for Mfme always have done!. Mfme will never be updated as it is, so couldn't @johnparker007 give it the evolution it deserves if not i see in say five years time Mfme will be another past emulation platform, who's to say there's not someone working on a "new" mfme 

After All Mfme is Mame or at least part of it is code wise and mame let wizard update to v5 under the "newer" terms and conditions.

johnparker was first mentioned here

 https://www.fruitemu.co.uk/ib/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&controller=topic&id=17887&page=6&app=forums&module=forums&id=17887

[Reg]

10 minutes ago, vectra666 said:

personally i think this is the way forward for Mfme always have done!

Chris Wren has been in the ground for just over six months and already, you're supporting people taking MFME and building it into their own product ?

So, that reference you have is a very different reason to what Chris gave me he was coming back and it's clear that he has done all he should do in the credits.  Perhaps I didn't ask Chris the right question as I was asking about the scene in general and it was about th scene.

That being said - @johnparker007 does not have the right to MFME as I don't have the rights to his code or equally the right to Guitar's code.  MFME is not an open source project and if anybody knows Chris the way they claim to, do you think he would ever say yes, build my MFME into somebody elses work.

[MrPillze]

Touchy subject and one that should really be left alone. there is no way imo it would of been allowed to be bundled with other software. there are other ways to make it work if they wanted too and that should really be it.

[wearecity]

Perhaps it's best to lock this thread at least temporarily, until a conclusion is reached.

PM's can always be sent and TBH probably would be better.

Edited March 25, 2021 by wearecity

[johnparker007]

Oh god guys - please all chill!  

I'm not stopping the project, but certainly the 'official' build will just use MAME as it's primary FME engine, as it fixes this issue.  I've just spent a couple of hours playtesting various ROMs in MAME to see how it's looking these days.. a few not working that used to work back in the mfme2mame project, but certainly lots of JPM machines using Indiana Jones tech seem to work perfectly... some sc4s, mpu4s working, some not.  Some techs are completely dead.

Since the MFME stuff is partially there, I will leave it in, and have it as an 'unofficially supported' system, that will require some tinkering, for you guys - so that will be the only way to play Scorpion 5 / MPU 5 etc for now.  But now the focus has to shift to getting a process so that MAME is driving the layouts and taking inputs.

@Reg dude I'm honestly sorry I've upset you, I perhaps posted my post a little stressed, as I'd just finished work, an then found out mfme can't be part of arcade sim, which means lots more work!   But I was mainly explaining that it's going to be MAME now.  But I will leave the MFME stuff in, and probably maintain essential bits as I work on the MAME / Arcade side... but it would have to be stashed in some config menu out of the way, so it's not confusing users who just want it to work out of the box.

So in summary:
- am going to put optimisation work on hold, as I have to get MAME working, driving these layouts
- I will keep 'unofficial' MFME support, since it's all pretty much working anyway, I will have to think about how to do best this
- MAME will work out of the box, and be the officially supported FME for public release to the general public.  The Arcade Sim online library won't have any MFME machines in there, only MAME machines.  MFME will require some kind of configuration steps, from an option tucked away in a config menu.  MFME machines will need some kind of manual installation.

Again, sorry if I've upset people!  I will keep MFME in, but it won't be my primary focus for new dev for quite a while, as I need to get MAME up and running to at least the level MFME was at, ideally quite a bit further.

Hope that's helped to calm things a bit - and please don't unregister @A:E - let's get this thread back on track  

Also if anyone would like their donations back, they're more than welcome, it's no problem  - a list of donations and expenditures for the project so far is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVJB5VBvI1eTtB1-7DKGJ67j6RSHk-dBaM9irmZShBI/edit?usp=sharing

[Zippy]

I strongly agree with you @Reg as it is still to soon, we need at least a year and with all the other shite that is going on in the world atm it doesn't help. You may as well lock it as there sounds like there is not going to be any further developments.

Did read that thread and is very interesting.

Leave mine for the minute @johnparker007 as time and patience can be the key to its lock. Tell that mate of yours to get his arse back in here please and let's get back on track. Got faith in you mate, I know a lot of others do too.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Big J

[Reg]

@johnparker007 I am not really upset - I am just defending my dead friend to represent what I knew of him for 20+ years.

There is no need to apoligise - this never actually got nasty and I have no ill will towards you - although I am pretty fucking pissed at another comment on here tonight.  That will pass...

If you want @A:E back, he asked for his account to be closed - I know you know him personally, check if he still wants it closed and if he does not can you let me know and I'll open it.  He does have my personal details as well from when he's done work for me, so he cna also reach out.

I think you are missing a trick here and should look at the @slasher method.

The Arcade could detect if MFME was installed and carry on as normal by checking registry enteries and if not, perhaps a splash screen saying one component is needed from this which is from here.

That way - we keep Chris and his program isolated.  Let's be honest - you have the bigger auidence here for Fruit Machines and resources.

This also gives you a compromise where people will happily support you here to get you things you need and if you did the check for install and if not, give a splash screen it's not really a bad relationship - is it ?

[johnparker007]

I could perhaps do something along those lines, so it detects they already have MFME installed, so they can manually get those machines working in some kind of local mode, outside of the core MAME system.

I'll put the unoptimised sim back together enough (was part way through optimisations, so lots of things disabled), and start working on getting MAME working next - probably just a scraper/data layout at first, similar format to MFME, as that'll be quickest to get up and running.  Later, I'll do a custom MAME build to pass video/lamp data (and perhaps audio stream) direct to Arcade Sim.

Edit: have sent A:E a message to see, I hope he still stays a member  

Edited March 25, 2021 by johnparker007

[slasher]

If he comes back and sees this post it will no doubt shock him, as things between us have been a bit rocky lol... but AE is a valued member so we do need him back really. Hopefully it was just a heat of the moment thing, though we can't be blaming Reg for doing what was asked either, he's a top admin and doing what the member asked for.

Let's hope things get back on track now.

[Zippy]

4 minutes ago, slasher said:

If he comes back and sees this post it will no doubt shock him, as things between us have been a bit rocky lol... but AE is a valued member so we do need him back really. Hopefully it was just a heat of the moment thing, though we can't be blaming Reg for doing what was asked either, he's a top admin and doing what the member asked for.

Let's hope things get back on track now.

We'll said 

[Ginge]

@johnparker007 you can keep my donation I believe that once you give someone something it’s wrong to take it back ,also feel it’s money well spent for the hard work you have put in to this project even if you don’t use the donation for the project get yourself a couple of .Hopefully everything will sort it’s self out and you can carry on with the project one way or another .

[johnparker007]

11 minutes ago, Ginge said:

@johnparker007 you can keep my donation I believe that once you give someone something it’s wrong to take it back ,also feel it’s money well spent for the hard work you have put in to this project even if you don’t use the donation for the project get yourself a couple of .Hopefully everything will sort it’s self out and you can carry on with the project one way or another .

Thanks bud, much appreciated - the project will be continuing, just shifting focus to MAME for primary FME...  

Checking the sheet, the project currently has £193.50 in donations, and has incurred £113.58 in costs, full details here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVJB5VBvI1eTtB1-7DKGJ67j6RSHk-dBaM9irmZShBI/edit#gid=0

[stevedude2]

You don't get progress and evolution in any field without compromise and rational discussion.  I'm sure resolution can be reached to help this exciting project move forwards, and those involved will be a credit to the scene

@A:E - get back in here you!

[niallquinn]

EDIT, Let's see what happens.  It colud be worse, you could be a Mag.

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by niallquinn

[Geddy]

2 hours ago, niallquinn said:

EDIT, Let's see what happens.  It colud be worse, you could be a Mag.

....or your bog seat