Custom layout / sound ROM questions.

[OmniUK]

Hi all,

After furious searching, I have a few questions I've not fully been able to find the answer for. Sorry if any of this is covered somewhere obvious:

Simple one, I can't seem to find out how to add intro screens to machines, where creators put their logos and controls etc. The newbies guide doesn't seem to cover that, is there any documentation you could suggest to help me get my head around that.

 

More complex is the question of custom machines. I assume in general it would be possible to clone/reskin a machine, but I can't find any examples of a custom machine someone has made. Can point to an example or download? Sound would seem to be the problem, as I can't directly find a tool that can pack/unpack samples from the sound ROMs. Did a tool for this ever emerge? I can't code, so there's no chance I could produce my own, but it seems entirely possible as the old source code is there.

 

Cheers.

[thealteredemu]

I create a machine called Fruit Vortex way back in the early 2000’s.  I built my bespoke sound rom.  Sadly the sound roms tool is no longer available I certainly don’t have it any longer.  I also don’t have access to that one machine I created.

J

[thealteredemu]

The guy who wrote that sound tool was, Dialtone, the creator of JPeMU he offered me a copy of it.  Not sure if it was widely released.  Sadly he’s no longer active within the fme scene.

J

[Matty.n]

On 24/02/2024 at 07:26, OmniUK said:

Simple one, I can't seem to find out how to add intro screens to machines, where creators put their logos and controls etc. The newbies guide doesn't seem to cover that, is there any documentation you could suggest to help me get my head around that.

 

If the layout is unlocked (Implemented as a result of ebay sellers passing work off as their own) then you can enter edit mode on the layout of choice (CTRL & E) then click the notes tab, that will allow you to edit the text there and right clicking load image will allow you to add/remove the splash screen that shows when you load a layout.

[andrew96]

Thanks for that, and if the layout is locked right click on the splash screen does nothing I presume

[Matty.n]

9 hours ago, andrew96 said:

Thanks for that, and if the layout is locked right click on the splash screen does nothing I presume

Correct, no ability to do anything aside from cancel out to see the layout notes.

[OmniUK]

Thanks all for the responses, it helps a lot. As tools may be lost to time, maybe I'll check my expectations a bit.

 

Thanks again for the replies.

[Matty.n]

6 hours ago, OmniUK said:

Thanks all for the responses, it helps a lot. As tools may be lost to time, maybe I'll check my expectations a bit.

 

Thanks again for the replies.

That may be lost to time but there is also the WAVE.exe tool from @edwardb if you're really willing to get committed... Plus you can also "easily" hex edit a few Empire machines on MPU4 to give it custom text which has been done in the past, Ghost train and Haunted house are good candidates.

 

 

[johnparker007]

On 24/02/2024 at 07:26, OmniUK said:

Sound would seem to be the problem, as I can't directly find a tool that can pack/unpack samples from the sound ROMs. Did a tool for this ever emerge? I can't code, so there's no chance I could produce my own, but it seems entirely possible as the old source code is there.

I did half-start a tool (a modern Windows tool with a GUI) for doing this, worked on a few techs, more were to follow, but I've been under the weather, plus a bunch of other FME projects require my attention these days!  

Here's a demo of someone using a rom created by the tool (so the feature board music normally isn't the official Ghostbusters, but a short loop of similar synth Ghostbusters music):

The source code is here (all my projects going forward are open source so all code is always available).  If someone has the time and a basic knownledge of coding etc, they could expand this to cover most/all techs, and also improve the UI etc:

[ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor
 

Edited February 27 by johnparker007

[MPU_FIVE]

On 26/02/2024 at 15:26, thealteredemu said:

I create a machine called Fruit Vortex way back in the early 2000’s.  I built my bespoke sound rom.  Sadly the sound roms tool is no longer available I certainly don’t have it any longer.  I also don’t have access to that one machine I created.

J

Hey, @thealteredemu... Is this the layout you are talking about? It rang a bell when i read this thread and so i looked in my FME collection, and here this is. (It is still on Fruit-Emu too as i just did a quick google search for it.)

All the best,

Gary.

 

vortexdx.zip

[johnparker007]

3 minutes ago, MPU_FIVE said:

Hey, @thealteredemu... Is this the layout you are talking about? It rang a bell when i read this thread and so i looked in my FME collection, and here this is. (It is still on Fruit-Emu too as i just did a quick google search for it.)

All the best,

Gary.

 

vortexdx.zip 4.91 MB · 0 downloads

I see 'Fuzion Design' in the background, I think it's @thealteredemu's work, good find!  

[MPU_FIVE]

21 minutes ago, johnparker007 said:

I see 'Fuzion Design' in the background, I think it's @thealteredemu's work, good find!  

Ahh, cool stuff! I think it may need an edit tho as i just tried to collect the winnings and get error 10.1 .... dayyyymmmn!!

[OmniUK]

This thread has turned out to be great, thanks all. I'll certainly look at the tool. I'm dedicated, but not code literate so we'll see how that pans out. 

 

Appreciate the heads up on various ROMs/hacks! 

[thealteredemu]

Ha ha, that is indeed the slot I made.  Crikey that’s an age ago now .

Thank you

J

[johnparker007]

31 minutes ago, OmniUK said:

This thread has turned out to be great, thanks all. I'll certainly look at the tool. I'm dedicated, but not code literate so we'll see how that pans out. 

 

Appreciate the heads up on various ROMs/hacks! 

The tool isn't compiled into an .exe, just the source code project... I only developed it far enough to make some custom sound ROMs (ya know to prove it was doable, as is often the way with my projects lol  ).

What platform are you looking to make a custom sound ROM for?  I think I only coded ADPCM format so far, that covers MPU4 and some other less common techs, but I don't quite remember.  I was going to sort out some interleaved stuff (maybe sc4/5?) but I didn't get round to that yet.  I've just tested a build and it's very not finished - I can load and patch sounds, but not save them back to a compiled ROM.

Here's the build, but someone needs to do more on the code probably, unfortunately we are severely short of programmers in the FME scene, and I'm struggling for both health and time at the mo... when I'm up to it, I really need to keep chipping away at Oasis project.

Sorry that's probably not much use for the moment!  I'm sure I'll get to it one day, but not right now  

Debug_SoundRomEditor.zip

Edit: full source code for this tool as it stands is in my forum sig below.

Edited February 27 by johnparker007

[OmniUK]

19 minutes ago, johnparker007 said:

The tool isn't compiled into an .exe, just the source code project... I only developed it far enough to make some custom sound ROMs (ya know to prove it was doable, as is often the way with my projects lol  ).

What platform are you looking to make a custom sound ROM for?  I think I only coded ADPCM format so far, that covers MPU4 and some other less common techs, but I don't quite remember.  I was going to sort out some interleaved stuff (maybe sc4/5?) but I didn't get round to that yet.  I've just tested a build and it's very not finished - I can load and patch sounds, but not save them back to a compiled ROM.

Here's the build, but someone needs to do more on the code probably, unfortunately we are severely short of programmers in the FME scene, and I'm struggling for both health and time at the mo... when I'm up to it, I really need to keep chipping away at Oasis project.

Sorry that's probably not much use for the moment!  I'm sure I'll get to it one day, but not right now  

Debug_SoundRomEditor.zip 1.37 MB · 0 downloads

Edit: full source code for this tool as it stands is in my forum sig below.

Again, amazing, thanks so much for the build even if it is just proof! I can understand that having any involvement in the technical side of this, must consume so much time for the few that remain. I do remember looking at classic layouts right at the very birth of emulation, and think it's incredible that there is still such activity. It makes me wish I could contribute, maybe I will find a way. I certainly know my way around electronics, but code is beyond me.

 

I hope that the older members and contributors can see that the new blood here, really appreciate their help and time. 

[OmniUK]

Oh and I hadnt worked out where I wanted to go game and platform wise, because I figured I had already hit a brick wall

[johnparker007]

5 minutes ago, OmniUK said:

it's incredible that there is still such activity

If you've not seen it, and you like the fruit machines, you might be interested in Arcade Simulator:

 

[OmniUK]

6 minutes ago, johnparker007 said:

If you've not seen it, and you like the fruit machines, you might be interested in Arcade Simulator:

 

I have yet to try, but I've been reading the threads and looking at your plans for this and it's so exciting. I can see how ambitious this is, and how long it's going to take solo - it's really good this is on github.

[johnparker007]

10 minutes ago, OmniUK said:

I have yet to try, but I've been reading the threads and looking at your plans for this and it's so exciting. I can see how ambitious this is, and how long it's going to take solo - it's really good this is on github.

The original 'old' Arcade Sim code is intentionally not on github btw, as it was somewhat a proof-of-concept, so I don't feel it's a good/constructive idea to put it on there.  It's reasonably well-coded to be fair, but we don't want a bunch of Arcade Sim clones floating around at this early stage  

The new Oasis version [of Arcade Sim and associated projects] is all about the whole community being able to build the 3d machines and the layouts (for at least fruit+video games initially); in Arcade Sim I had to build everything myself in the internal format to make stuff work, and the community could only play those machines I built, so it was both a lot of work for me, but of course unsustainable as a scene project everyone can share effort in (and also boringly passive for those creative scene members).  It wasn't an oversight as such, more that I needed to figure out if it was even possible to run full arcades with 100s of machines, with many onscreen at once.  Fortunately, as we can see from Arcade Sim v1, it totally is doable!  

The current offerings (mainly New Retro Arcade Neon, and also a new project Arcade Time Capsule which looks very nice) have severe limitations (in my opinion) in terms of fully custom arcades (no vision for truly custom arcade layouts, no true multiplayer, no fruit machines, no pinball, no coin pushers, no indoor minigolf, no pool etc etc), and also they intentionally don't pack the machines close as a workaround to deal with performance issues (unlike Arcade Sim v1 which can run closely packed machines as per a real arcade without issue, as it was built from the ground up to handle that).  These performance architectural implementations translate to potentially running native on mobile phones, (non-tethered) VR headsets etc.

I have reached out already and had great dialog with the author of the new Time Capsule project, it sounds like we can work out some 3d model sharing in the future, as the creator is also a good 3d artist and has created a bunch of great authentic video game cabinets for his project (which would look great in Oasis).

Apologies, got side-tracked with waffling lol, but that is the vision anyway   And while I'm working slow right now, things should pick up, and once we get to a certain level, we should get to the 'MAME model' where other coders come and also work on it, rather than just me (and it is already being built from the ground up to facilitate 2d layout artist contributions, much like MFME).

[OmniUK]

Arcade Sim is really impressive, proof or not.

There have been so many promising attempts at what you're doing, and some with good results. I'd be happy if I had good none-flat virtual options for each one of my game experiences, but you're trying to make the dream  

I've not read every thread over in that section, is there anything none boffin people can be helping you with - if it's covered there, let me know.

When you hook in the MAME crowd, it might just explode - there's a ton of people out there that don't know fruity crack.

You can waffle all you want mate, because you're doing something that everyone here stands to benefit from, and I'm certainly interested. 

[johnparker007]

11 hours ago, OmniUK said:

is there anything none boffin people can be helping you with

Not much at this very early stage unfortunately.  Once we get to the stage where 'classic' layouts (that are mainly text based with just a few graphics and graphical reel bands), can be extracted and imported, edited, and then exported as MAME 'internal' pure text layouts - there will be a ton of labelling work, so that we can get the internal layouts for fruit machines (that get built into MAME.exe) to a complete state.  This in turn will provide a lot more incentive for coders to work on MAME to iron out the many bugs, config issues, missing devices etc, that will result in MAME getting the various fruit machine techs to full compatibility (it's currently quite behind MFME).

Meanwhile, I will be working on the graphical/3d side so then the community can get the 1000s of 2d layouts converted/expanded into 3d machines.

So, in the future, there will be plenty more stuff the community can do, without programming skills - just not there yet  

[OmniUK]

vortexdx.zip

On 27/02/2024 at 18:17, MPU_FIVE said:

Ahh, cool stuff! I think it may need an edit tho as i just tried to collect the winnings and get error 10.1 .... dayyyymmmn!!

Thanks for this, it's nice to have an example machine to look at. The collect error can be cleared by selecting hopper 8 - not sure if there are any other issues or not. I've attached the layout with the hopper change.

Appreciated.

Edited March 1 by OmniUK
file

[OmniUK]

Same issue on the Classic and DX Supafruits, attached those with hopper 8 set.

Supafruits (Union) - C01-DX01-DX02.zip

[woodsy]

On 27/02/2024 at 21:22, johnparker007 said:

The original 'old' Arcade Sim code is intentionally not on github btw, as it was somewhat a proof-of-concept, so I don't feel it's a good/constructive idea to put it on there.  It's reasonably well-coded to be fair, but we don't want a bunch of Arcade Sim clones floating around at this early stage  

The new Oasis version [of Arcade Sim and associated projects] is all about the whole community being able to build the 3d machines and the layouts (for at least fruit+video games initially); in Arcade Sim I had to build everything myself in the internal format to make stuff work, and the community could only play those machines I built, so it was both a lot of work for me, but of course unsustainable as a scene project everyone can share effort in (and also boringly passive for those creative scene members).  It wasn't an oversight as such, more that I needed to figure out if it was even possible to run full arcades with 100s of machines, with many onscreen at once.  Fortunately, as we can see from Arcade Sim v1, it totally is doable!  

The current offerings (mainly New Retro Arcade Neon, and also a new project Arcade Time Capsule which looks very nice) have severe limitations (in my opinion) in terms of fully custom arcades (no vision for truly custom arcade layouts, no true multiplayer, no fruit machines, no pinball, no coin pushers, no indoor minigolf, no pool etc etc), and also they intentionally don't pack the machines close as a workaround to deal with performance issues (unlike Arcade Sim v1 which can run closely packed machines as per a real arcade without issue, as it was built from the ground up to handle that).  These performance architectural implementations translate to potentially running native on mobile phones, (non-tethered) VR headsets etc.

I have reached out already and had great dialog with the author of the new Time Capsule project, it sounds like we can work out some 3d model sharing in the future, as the creator is also a good 3d artist and has created a bunch of great authentic video game cabinets for his project (which would look great in Oasis).

Apologies, got side-tracked with waffling lol, but that is the vision anyway   And while I'm working slow right now, things should pick up, and once we get to a certain level, we should get to the 'MAME model' where other coders come and also work on it, rather than just me (and it is already being built from the ground up to facilitate 2d layout artist contributions, much like MFME).

mouth watering