dataslater Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 I've just had a thought, and I may be way off here about how the layouts are put together (never done one but willing to learn), but it occurred to me that if a physical machine was available and someone put a bit of time in, both the unlit and lit states of every bulb could be photographed and stitched together to make a very realistic layout without the need to Photoshop the lighting effects. I have a poorly BFM Timelord but I'm sure I could just inject power to the lamp matrix to capture each lamp in both states. Does anyone know if this has been done before? Seriously considering scrapping/parting out/upcycling this machine to a mfme cabinet but would like to create a layout of it for posterity (been tripping over it for the best part of 30 years!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slotsmagic Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 44 minutes ago, dataslater said: I've just had a thought, and I may be way off here about how the layouts are put together (never done one but willing to learn), but it occurred to me that if a physical machine was available and someone put a bit of time in, both the unlit and lit states of every bulb could be photographed and stitched together to make a very realistic layout without the need to Photoshop the lighting effects. I have a poorly BFM Timelord but I'm sure I could just inject power to the lamp matrix to capture each lamp in both states. Does anyone know if this has been done before? Seriously considering scrapping/parting out/upcycling this machine to a mfme cabinet but would like to create a layout of it for posterity (been tripping over it for the best part of 30 years!) It's a good idea in theory, I'm sure it's been tried before and probably used in sections, but doing a whole machine that way would be tricky. The artworks (on and off) would need to be aligned in a pixel-perfect manner, or you'd get one of my least favourite effects - 'jumping' lamps. That's where you have an off and on lamp image which aren't overlaid correctly, and the graphics 'move' when alternating between the two states. Not to say don't try, but it could be argued that it adds move time and effort than manually adding lamp effects in Photoshop, and at least by lamping a single dark image (or darkening a single lit image) you remove jumping lamps. Basically, from my perspective and my limited layout design experience, I'd find the prospect of trying to perfectly match both the actual, bulb lit image, and the off state image, far too stressful if not impossible. Just my opinion, some of the more skilled designers might love the idea, and it would be nice to see if someone could pull it off! Edited February 20 by slotsmagic Currently owned digitals : T7 Encore, T7 Original, Astra iPub and Storm Street Casino. MFME cabinets : Genesis cab DIY by No1Stoney, Interplay conversion and Vegas Strip conversion (both are works in progress!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dataslater Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 Thanks for the insight. for a bit more perspective I've worked with Photoshop for over 20 years, so I like to think I'd be able to negate any jumping lamps (by merging/blurring/antialiasing etc.) - I like a challenge to be honest (I have more ideas in the bank for other FME stuff too from a hardware aspect). I only have this one machine I'd like to preserve so willing to put the time in, and think it's a worthy cause. I just think that a lot of layouts look a bit 'off' because of the unrealistic lighting of the lamps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun2097 Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 would it be possible to replicate fading lamp states with this method?.. Im just being curious..ive never done a layout, but this was the first thought that popped into my head when reading your post.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vectra666 Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 I’ve done this before with cash counter the layout used I’d say around 80% real lamp images it is possible if you had a camera on a tripod so the whole machine or sections were in view. The machine would do its attract thingy whilst the camara would take several shots of which you’d then have perfectly aligned images of the machine In it’s Off state and lamps on state probably wouldn’t be so pixel perfect if using a handheld device Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dataslater Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 I was also wondering how it'd look using a scanner instead of a camera and laying the (removed) game panel over it to keep everything perfectly square. I don't know how the lit state would look, but it might have half a chance if powered by a DC supply rather than the standard multiplexed inputs. Might have a go at some point just to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealteredemu Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 It's has been done many times over the years. Tripod and camera setup is the best method as scanning would be a huge undertaking as you'd essentially be dismantling each machine to get the images. The reason why this isn't usually the way DX are built is simply the fact that not many people have access to an abundance of machines to do this type of DX artwork especially as decent enough lamping effects can be done in photoshop. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealteredemu Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 The tools available in MFME are pretty powerful I create a complete mask of the machine glass in photoshop and this get's imported with my on lamps, so some excellent lamping can be achieved if you have the time to spend on the project. I do some extra bits with the masks to achieve some light glow, I've also started adding a transparent bitmap of the lamp area so I don't use blended lamps, not fully tested yet but could possible help on machines that suffer slow down issues. Again, these things can be time consuming but I enjoy creating the artwork side of things more that actually playing layouts personally. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnparker007 Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 (edited) 11 hours ago, dataslater said: Thanks for the insight. for a bit more perspective I've worked with Photoshop for over 20 years, so I like to think I'd be able to negate any jumping lamps (by merging/blurring/antialiasing etc.) - I like a challenge to be honest (I have more ideas in the bank for other FME stuff too from a hardware aspect). I only have this one machine I'd like to preserve so willing to put the time in, and think it's a worthy cause. I just think that a lot of layouts look a bit 'off' because of the unrealistic lighting of the lamps. If you are handy with photoshop then it's 100% doable If you can get your phone (assuming phone camera), 100% steady by rigging up some makeshift tripod, could just be wedged on the step of a stepladder or whatever you have to hand, that could make things easier, since the on and off photos would perfectly match up, then no 'jumping lamps'. Then if you have it in photoshop so you can turn on/off the top layer, then that will simulate what it'll look like when all the lamps flash on/off in the emulator (without needing to go through all the work of actually cutting things out etc). If it looks good there, then it'll look good when built into a layout. Might want to also set up manual focus/exposure etc for when you take the pics, otherwise the lamps on may confuse the light sensor on the camera. Glass scans and high resolution photos are always very welcome, if you'd be up for sharing them before they get processed into a layout There's some on the Community Drive (http://tinyurl.com/yckze665) that need fish eye correction fixing, so improved images would be amazing Fisheye images: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1038UcG9kCB6ziec0WPMmwaI-3YkuNBbf?usp=sharing Edited February 21 by johnparker007 1 [ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net | Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e | Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo [ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665 [ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz [ Fruit Machine ROM Archive ] The archive: https://tinyurl.com/3jhzbueb [ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch [ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis [ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slotsmagic Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 (edited) 11 hours ago, dataslater said: Thanks for the insight. for a bit more perspective I've worked with Photoshop for over 20 years, so I like to think I'd be able to negate any jumping lamps (by merging/blurring/antialiasing etc.) - I like a challenge to be honest (I have more ideas in the bank for other FME stuff too from a hardware aspect). I only have this one machine I'd like to preserve so willing to put the time in, and think it's a worthy cause. I just think that a lot of layouts look a bit 'off' because of the unrealistic lighting of the lamps. Ah, you didn't mention your experience! Sorry for the assumption, I just assumed you were a new member who was going to provide photos for others to work from. You should see the standards of photos that have been provided in the past by newbies Good luck with it all then, sounds like it could well be the definitive version (Edit - I see you are mentioned scrapping e.t.c. - my advise would be to check values first. I'm not sure it's the most desirable machine but there's surprising value even in non-workers of that era. Would be nice if you got a fair price and someone could restore it, unless you fancied a bit of restoration yourself!). Edited February 21 by slotsmagic 1 Currently owned digitals : T7 Encore, T7 Original, Astra iPub and Storm Street Casino. MFME cabinets : Genesis cab DIY by No1Stoney, Interplay conversion and Vegas Strip conversion (both are works in progress!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john ando Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 oh yes,tripod with correct camera set up is magic,got a mate who also uses pixapro lighting for all off images,works wonders if you have the correct equipment but it takes time and you have to buy the goods I see plenty of liars and thieves. Just look at me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dataslater Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 Thanks for all the replies - Certainly given me some stuff to think about. Now I just need to have a play about and see which route to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealteredemu Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 Honestly if you put some time in with photoshop you can get some excellent results. I've been working on this unlit artwork for a while maybe few hours a week here and there. I like to make the layouts I create as best I can so I'm always trying new ways to work and improve the overall look. J 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealteredemu Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 2 hours ago, john ando said: oh yes,tripod with correct camera set up is magic,got a mate who also uses pixapro lighting for all off images,works wonders if you have the correct equipment but it takes time and you have to buy the goods Do you have any examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealteredemu Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 Sure, if you have the gear and access to the machines then that's fantastic but realistically most members just simply can't do this. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dataslater Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 3 hours ago, slotsmagic said: Ah, you didn't mention your experience! Sorry for the assumption, I just assumed you were a new member who was going to provide photos for others to work from. You should see the standards of photos that have been provided in the past by newbies Good luck with it all then, sounds like it could well be the definitive version (Edit - I see you are mentioned scrapping e.t.c. - my advise would be to check values first. I'm not sure it's the most desirable machine but there's surprising value even in non-workers of that era. Would be nice if you got a fair price and someone could restore it, unless you fancied a bit of restoration yourself!). I'd prefer not to scrap it to be honest, but at the very least it needs some work doing to the main board (there was no sound the last time I turned it on and it looks like it's suffered from battery damage). Other issues include the power supply taking an age to come on (needs new caps perhaps?) and due to it's age it likely needs new ROMS burning (it's an £8 all cash - no idea where to even start looking for those, or how to get hold of a set.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnparker007 Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 41 minutes ago, dataslater said: ...due to it's age it likely needs new ROMS burning (it's an £8 all cash - no idea where to even start looking for those, or how to get hold of a set.) Here's some Dr Who Timelord roms, maybe one of these will be the ones you need Dr Who Time Lord (Bellfruit) [Rom].zip [ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net | Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e | Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo [ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665 [ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz [ Fruit Machine ROM Archive ] The archive: https://tinyurl.com/3jhzbueb [ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch [ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis [ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john ando Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, thealteredemu said: Do you have any examples? it isn't my set up itis my mates who you dont get on with,the off images are so clear and detailed i can knock up dxs with a lot less stress and are hardly pixelated at all.Just finished circle line with a tad of redrwing,it will be up on freedom site later or tommorow. I see plenty of liars and thieves. Just look at me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealteredemu Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 That’s a shame, be great to see the outcome with this technique. J 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealteredemu Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 When it’s released could you grab an image of it at all? No worries if not. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dataslater Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 3 hours ago, johnparker007 said: Here's some Dr Who Timelord roms, maybe one of these will be the ones you need Dr Who Time Lord (Bellfruit) [Rom].zip Cheers for those! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john ando Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 2 hours ago, thealteredemu said: That’s a shame, be great to see the outcome with this technique. J i'll see what i can do but cant promise anything.The pixapro equipment he has is so powerful he gets one machine done in less than 60 secs,i have seen the technique and he has spent many hours at arcades and friends capturing with a 100mp camera.He wanted to Bury the hatchet as he puts but after the circle line nonsense he is reluctant now.Shame cause this site could of benifited from that. I see plenty of liars and thieves. Just look at me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealteredemu Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 I was only interested in seeing the results, sounds like there are fme politics attached so don't sweat it. 100mp is huge and would equate to a layout greater than 12k resolution I believe!!! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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