Honey Money older ROM help

[avengah]

I haven't been following the scene for a few years since I quit playing fruit machines professionally, when it went shit. So the last time I was aware of things here, JPeMu was fairly new and I used it to practise Arcadia's Shoot 'Em Up for a travelling fair which had an unchipped £15 20p one. MPU5 emulation was in its infancy and not officially public.

I notice that some ROMs are automatically downloaded from somewhere. As a new member with strict download limits (I plan to donate soon), I found a large repository online (archive.org) - but it's too big to download so I have to go into the archive and pick files to download. I only just realised that some layouts require the ROM from the repository but some don't - they download a .hex file from somewhere.

My question is this: How do I make MFME use an older chip? Honey Money downloads the ROM in .hex format. Here is my folder:

 

So the .hex file is version 2.3 and I'd like to try 1.1, but I don't know how. I tried loading the _11 files instead of .hex in the ROM loader but the game didn't start. How do I know which are program and which are sound ROMs? Thanks!

EDIT: MFME often says certain layouts are Non-Runners but then the layouts load fine if loaded manually (File menu, not manager). I think it may be because the ROM needs downloading or is named differently than the layout expects. Maybe the Game Manager is not aware that a valid ROM can be downloaded automatically - you have to manually try every layout as the scan regularly makes this mistake. Unless there's a workaround or better way to get the manager to accept these layouts that I'm unaware of? 

Edited February 6, 2023 by avengah
MFME saying non-runner by mistake?

[logopolis]

 

I replied to a similar question last week. Go to this link 

 

[avengah]

Thank you. Could you please tell me which files are the program ROMs and which are the sound ROMs? For version 1.1. The problem is there are multiple files with .p1. Thanks again!

[logopolis]

Usually the sound roms are p3 and p4 for MPU5. Load all the roms in the program roms section - hmo_11k.p1 then hmo_11.p2 and so on for all 6.

Edited February 6, 2023 by logopolis

[logopolis]

Here I got it working for you. The collect button seems to be the be the Vivid button on this layout! 

 

Honey Money 1.1.zip

[avengah]

Thanks very much!

The emptier works just as I remember it - now I can experiment more! I couldn't remember which machine I was thinking of, so I searched Vivids and recognised the name. I had one in a great location I did weekly for ages! Wow, it went so dead when done, could take a fortune for a board... not to mention a cash win, necessary to do the trick!

The funny thing was, the guy who told me the trick said it was useless because you'd never find one that was safe to plug repeatedly. Haha, how wrong he was! Maybe that's why he gave it me for nowt!

Edited February 6, 2023 by avengah

[Irvster]

thanks

[avengah]

It's an interesting little trick. It was known about very early. I am almost certain it was a deliberate thing - why else would only this one Vivid have it and not any of the previous ones with similar reel play? Did people actually try plugging machines and randomly stumble upon this, or was it deliberate and given out by the programmers themselves?

As far as weird emptiers go, I can see Clowning Around being possibly accidental with the delayed ? triggering on the next spin, but there seems to be no logic to the Honey Money method. Why would plugging it on a cash win end up awarding the next win up? It would be interesting to look at the code to try and establish why it happens - but programmers have got in a lot of trouble in the past for coding deliberate emptiers; not only losing their jobs but potentially being arrested and charged with a crime. So even if deliberate, coders would likely make it look like an oversight.

[serene02]

It’s doubtful that a lot of extensive play testing around powering machine down goes on to be fair.  They have power down code that handles those things but obviously things can slip through, is it a re-occurring win after it’s been plugged?  If so it’s likely down to a win flag not being cleared for whatever reason.  I imagine playtesting is mainly done in an automated way in this day and age.

J 

[avengah]

I see. I thought that was a possibility, forgetting to clear a flag, but the strangest part is the fact that it starts one rung higher. I can only assume it's something to do with the plugging making it think the gamble was won? On a dead machine like the one I did weekly, it won't even trail hold or reel hold. Eventually (maybe around £20-30 in if I recall), it will throw in a small win. In this state it will never win except on a 1 or 12. That was a costly mistake when learning, on maybe my second visit - it cost a fortune to get another win!

The 25p version (which this was) was awkward and required a bit of change. After 4 plugs it makes a popping sound and erases your bank and credits. So at 30p it's not a problem, as you can plug it after collecting £75 with 10p credit in - it's not necessary to see the repeat chance before plugging it and you only lose the 10p part credit. But the 25p version will pop and clear everything before you get the chance to collect. You need to use change to play it once you start getting jackpots.

[logopolis]

10 minutes ago, avengah said:

I see. I thought that was a possibility, forgetting to clear a flag, but the strangest part is the fact that it starts one rung higher. I can only assume it's something to do with the plugging making it think the gamble was won? On a dead machine like the one I did weekly, it won't even trail hold or reel hold. Eventually (maybe around £20-30 in if I recall), it will throw in a small win. In this state it will never win except on a 1 or 12. That was a costly mistake when learning, on maybe my second visit - it cost a fortune to get another win!

The 25p version (which this was) was awkward and required a bit of change. After 4 plugs it makes a popping sound and erases your bank and credits. So at 30p it's not a problem, as you can plug it after collecting £75 with 10p credit in - it's not necessary to see the repeat chance before plugging it and you only lose the 10p part credit. But the 25p version will pop and clear everything before you get the chance to collect. You need to use change to play it once you start getting jackpots.

Interesting stuff. Cash Attack and Going Ape had a similar problem where you would plug it as it clocked up Mega Streak wins. They also did that popping sound if you plugged it at the wrong time.

I remember you could key Honey Money on trail holds like you would with an Exteme. Never tried it because the only one I knew was in an arcade with a camera facing it.

[serene02]

Early versions of Barcrest Crystal Maze could be emptied via plugging on the end game, it too had a knack of clearing the bank after a couple of plugs.  The way to combat that was just play a credit at a time so you could collect each bank, it didn’t matter if it ripped you on one every now and again but if you had a big bank it would nab it for sure.

J

[serene02]

@avengah Was this a clone or a completely new machine? Wonder if others built with the same base code had the same fault?

J

[logopolis]

21 hours ago, avengah said:

I haven't been following the scene for a few years since I quit playing fruit machines professionally, when it went shit. So the last time I was aware of things here, JPeMu was fairly new and I used it to practise Arcadia's Shoot 'Em Up for a travelling fair which had an unchipped £15 20p one. MPU5 emulation was in its infancy and not officially public.

 

 needs downloading or is named differently than the layout expects. Maybe the Game Manager is not aware that a valid ROM can be downloaded automatically - you have to manually try every layout as the scan regularly makes this mistake. Unless there's a workaround or better way to get the manager to accept these layouts that I'm unaware of? 

Just something I noticed on your original post. You mentioned Arcadia Shoot Em Up. Which program did you use to practice Shoot Em Up?

Cheers.

[serene02]

We don’t have an early version, that I know of.  I believe the feature works exactly the same but the rom we have times out after so long.

J

Edited February 6, 2023 by serene02

[serene02]

I just had a play, it seems when you collect the win and plug it the machine still remains with an unfinished gamble code, strange how it puts you one ahead on the ladder.  Still, I'd say coding bug.  I notice it has a power down watchdog, 3 power downs in quick succession and the code flags a clear bank procedure, I guess 3 power downs are seen as a little bit suspect so the code kicks in and does it's job.   Would indicate that maybe other machines have had issues regarding power downs, but it's likely common practice to have the watchdog monitoring these situations.

J

[serene02]

Maybe the update shifted the code that controls the gamble win and accounts for it before the win is banked therefore stopping that particular bug from occurring. 

J

[avengah]

On 06/02/2023 at 22:01, logopolis said:

Just something I noticed on your original post. You mentioned Arcadia Shoot Em Up. Which program did you use to practice Shoot Em Up?

Cheers.

Just the one that everyone else was using. It was tighter (blocked SeU when not numbering) and the time-out couldn't be delayed by holding a button any more. But it was still very helpful for practice purposes. I was already good at stopping the two slower reels, having had one locally in an arcade for years, but the fast reel I hadn't got down until then. My local one was chipped early - I remember them coming in to chip it very early on, so unfortunately I was never able to empty it. It was a great machine though; very profitable. I remember you could trap it for big wins off the nudges at 1 on the trail, by holding a certain way, this worked even on the £25s. It sometimes worked even if the win being set up was more than 1 nudge away!

Edited February 8, 2023 by avengah

[logopolis]

9 minutes ago, avengah said:

Just the one that everyone else was using. It was tighter (blocked SeU when not numbering) and the time-out couldn't be delayed by holding a button any more. But it was still very helpful for practice purposes. I was already good at stopping the two slower reels, having had one locally in an arcade for years, but the fast reel I hadn't got down until then. My local one was chipped early - I remember them coming in to chip it very early on, so unfortunately I was never able to empty it. It was a great machine though; very profitable. I remember you could trap it for big wins off the nudges at 1 on the trail, by holding a certain way, this worked even on the £25s. It sometimes worked even if the win being set up was more than 1 nudge away!

Yeah it was the fast reel that I couldn't always master on SEU. The blue double bars for £10 was the common win to trap on the nudges on trail 1. 

[avengah]

In the end I found it easy to time using the red lines. The pattern of red red, long spin, red red etc. got me into a rhythm of when the fast reel was right, and I stopped it when my mental rhythm said NOW combined with watching the other two reels. I got a feel for the patterns so I knew when the setup was coming round. I also remember learning setups that worked on the chipped version, that came round within the time limit. Same as Spin On It, nudging in the best win was not always the best play (I particularly remember some lovely cherry setups on SoI where pot or hidden was there for 5 blasts, and we reckoned the machine looked at nearby wins when deciding where to put the nudge exchanges so a nearby win of £1.20-£3ish could make it put an X by a lower win that was also there for the forward/back/forward trap on a SPIN number, and even if no better win, an exchange for 5-6 nudges was often worth using to bring down the next matching symbol on one reel for a better Super Hold / Red For Reel / Reel Blasts setup).

[logopolis]

1 hour ago, avengah said:

In the end I found it easy to time using the red lines. The pattern of red red, long spin, red red etc. got me into a rhythm of when the fast reel was right, and I stopped it when my mental rhythm said NOW combined with watching the other two reels. I got a feel for the patterns so I knew when the setup was coming round. I also remember learning setups that worked on the chipped version, that came round within the time limit. Same as Spin On It, nudging in the best win was not always the best play (I particularly remember some lovely cherry setups on SoI where pot or hidden was there for 5 blasts, and we reckoned the machine looked at nearby wins when deciding where to put the nudge exchanges so a nearby win of £1.20-£3ish could make it put an X by a lower win that was also there for the forward/back/forward trap on a SPIN number, and even if no better win, an exchange for 5-6 nudges was often worth using to bring down the next matching symbol on one reel for a better Super Hold / Red For Reel / Reel Blasts setup).

I made a long play video of Spin On It. It had a few jackpots in it from the RAM reset. There were a couple of times where I did what you explained above and went back and forward between exchanges for a good jackpot.