andrew96

its all about having 3 lamp tables for the real machine, with one lamp table they don't play correctly, that's what I am trying to get across, its not that MFME is wrong, no amount of playing that will recreate anything as its made to work with one lamp table and could be compensated or tricked into working correctly where as a real machine is not tricked by 1 lamp table at all

yes it overpays and takes no notice of the percentage key when using a PATCHED ROM without the correct 3 tables for the lamps

as I keep saying, the emulator is just that it emulates! it is not the same as a real machine mfme does not use 3 lamp tables as I guess Chris did not know there were 3 as I only found that out recently, and none of the 3 tables are the same as in mfme, but the one table from mfme does work in a real machine it just upsets it

you cannot test the 3 table theroy in mfme as it uses just 1 table, and we have no idea what tricks or work arounds were put in place to make mfme play right

I see what your not getting, the first read of the table gives one set of numbers out, then the cpu will address the SAME bytes again and the CHR switches internally to table 2, then on the 3rd read the chr switches to table 3, then the cpu does this over and over for a bit...table 1, 2, then 3, then the code just reads the high part of the table out, then again which is table 2 then again which it table 3 and on and on............ when the program code does this in mfme it has just the one table that gets read over and over etc........ when this happens in a real machine it is THIS that upsets it....

but in a REAL machine there are 3 different lamp tables it access where as mfme or a patched rom just has 1 completely different table, that is what is causing the differences.

I only have hyper viper club and I would not have a clue if its playing good or not, I know nothing about gameplay, where as my frind I am asking is SH*T hot on knowing everything there is about gameplay but is difficult to hold of!

yes this wont work as in the post above mfme only uses 1 lamp table which is not the same as a real machine that has 3 completely different lamp tables in , thats why it needs testing on real machines!

ah thanks john, I was hoping to get the patched lamp table results so we can compare a real chr with the 3 different tables against the patched rom which has just the one, or I can make a chr with just 1 lamp table in, that's why I need mfme lamp table result!

no amount of testing on mfme will reproduse anything, its useless to do so as it only uses one lamp table which is NOT the same as any of the 3 values in the real chr lamp table

but mfme is a emulator, it emulates! we don't know how it emulates real hardware. we are talking about testing on real machines which is why the chr needs to be in place...... the EMULATOR DOES NOT EMULATE THE 3 DIFFERENT LAMP TABLE RESULTS! This is what we are testing!! real chr with 3 lamp tables in, and the hacked chr which has JUST THE ONE, on REAL hardware

he explained it to me in a video, nudges and blocking, but I can see you don't like it Its apparently actually really obvious in this real machine hence why its a good one to test with/without chr I am trying to help get to the bottom of this the best I can!

Icon got lost in the flowers ?

is there a mpu4 cash attack in mfme? he thinks that will be a good one to test to see what happens as it needs to control it's self!

All I can tell you its someone that knows his stuff! like me he deals in real machines not emulation! I don't know what version it is at present

I won't mention it again unless he gives me info on the machines It doesn't directly affect me anyway, My machine has the proper CHR chip and I have done my investigation into CHR's as far as I am going to go, the test rig is about to be stored away now as I need the bench space! cheers

ok well take it then that everything is good and fine. this is what I am up against, he last looked at messages 10:55PM but mine I sent this morning remains delivered but not opened!

for one location in the lamp table (04) MFME uses #40 BUT the real chr chip returns #4A in first pass, #26 on second pass and #C2 on third pass..... THIS is the difference....... when the MFME values are fed to a real machine that's where it can send it paying the wrong percentage, (usually its very tight!) Definitely something barcrest did with the 3 different figures!!!! but what!!!

its difficult to get any info on anything, cant even get a picture of behind a lock showing the position of the switch that mine doesn't have!

nope, I am saying in REAL machines the patching of the use of a lamp table (single number instead of 3 used in the real chr chip lamp table) causes issues in real machines, I dont know about MFME as I only have interest in real machine stuff

I have heard it happens but cannot give you any more advice on what machines ( I been waiting for one digital pic of the top door switch arrangement on a red gaming cab now since the start of the red dwarf project, and after asking the arcade owner lots of times I am still waiting years later.... so not a answer on what machines work incorrectly with fixed lamp table I am going to get I think!!) the chr table is fixed and that's not the issue, that is not too much of a hassle to overcome, its the 3 x scan of the lamp table with different figures that is the head scratcher!! The emulator is just that, it emulates! it is not the same as running real hardware as we know! More work needs to be done to recreate the 3 different tables used.. but don't think that's going to happen as MFME is now fixed with just one set of figures and the author is not about to look into this or change it, Just a heads up if using a patched lamp table in the rom its not likely to play correctly in a real machine... I can't be any more help than that really, MFME is beyond me.

Thanks for the tag, yes interesting for sure! I still cannot make out why the real chr chip sends out 3 different figures for the same byte sent to it when interrogated 3 times in a row, where as a different figure that's constant is used for mfme and it takes that as correct..... but there definitely is something in using the real chr chip when it reads the different figures which makes it payout the correct percentage, and when patched with the single figure the percentage goes out the window! Patching is definitely good for mfme as it allows you to play the game! but in a real machine..... well I definitely would not want to play one in a arcade that's been patched like that! worse than the fairground traveling fairs rom hacks!! It still needs working on for sure to work in the 3 different values returned in the lamp table for the same byte! barcrest did a good job in protecting it all in a good few ways which we have not yet hacked entirely!

It seems most post a introduction just to get the points and download then you never hear of them again! they are not interested in being a part of the community. Possibly a bit harsh and not easy to implement but my 2p's worth is if someone that uses there limits and downloads has not interreacted with any posts (and not just saying a generic 'that's good' etc) within a certain time frame ( 3 or 6 months say) should have to go back to having to post some introduction again and perhaps after so many strikes they are out... as I say just my view