Boulderdash

Replay existed in Barcrest club machines too, like Celebration. You got about 10% extra credits for using it.

Yep. Any variance in how they play is purely down to how you play it as opposed to how they got played in the wild. Club machines in golf clubs, for example, got quite a lot of play from old boys spending their pension so were ripe for a player to extract serious value, but stick the same machine in a snooker hall and far more people would take it on and it wouldn't build up that value.

Like you say, it's far too easy to lose £350+ on these things in no time at all. They shouldn't exist anywhere unregulated, especially where people will be drunk.

The reason people will play randoms is the fact you can win decent money in minutes and don't need to care about a player destroying the machine. For example, I popped in the pub at lunchtime and stuck a tenner in Robin Hood. First few quid at 50p yielded a few small wins but seemed fairly pointless, so I upped to £1 spins. Second game got a whole load of kings for £44, so I collected a £48 bank and walked with a nice little profit. That doesn't happen on a reflex. And if you forced a betcom you're lucky these days to make more than £20 profit, even if it goes for £150. These machines are deliberately shit as there was always a clear strategy to get compensated games out of pubs and turn them into mini casinos. They were supposed to have increased the category C jackpot in 2017 but because of the ongoing arguments about FOBTs the triennial review was punted into the long grass. Both bacta and the pub industry have called for a maximum stake of £2 and a maximum prize of £150. Imagine how much people will stuff into a pub random when they can spin in £150 in seconds no matter what previous play it's had! But really they're just slowly positioning the business to get FOBTs into pubs. AWPs stopped being such around the £15/£25 jackpot era.

I notice by the way @Chopaholicthat when it takes a credit to tell you 'that's your lot' it doesn't actually take a credit for the next game.

Can @slasheror anyone else here comment as to which does better cashbox wise - is it a reflex that no player will touch or a DOND with lots of player interest? I wouldn't mind betting it's the DOND. I also expect the random digitals take far more money than both combined.

The thing with these machines is they are created to actually be much closer to an old AWP because a lot of people were complaining about fruit machines in pubs just being a casino. And if you play it at 25p play and understand the jackpot you are playing for is really £25, you can actually have a fair bit of amusement. If you come across one where someone has done their bollocks you might even fluke a Jackpot from cash or bust. Download @vectra666's 'Trails of the unexpected' which is absolutely gagging and play on 25p a go and you'll see what I mean. But trying to force one from cold is a very stupid idea.

The fact that in multiple occasions you got involved with these pieces of shit and on multiple occasions walked away with a three-figure loss just shows the addiction never leaves us. If you stab yourself with a knife it hurts and your brain remembers to never do that again. But somehow, even through you know it's going to hurt if you try to force a jackpot out of the Gen 2 reflexes, we still do it.

There was another ace machine in the £15 era where one feature paid £16 and the computer didn't understand so it was free. Can't remember which though...

That might iou...

Dirty. Reminds me of my darkest gambling dreams where I'd go lower than a 12 and it would spin 13.

Looks awesome, but hopefully there's a quicker way to select games rather than paging through alphabetically. Trying to get to Rollercoaster or Vamp it Up would take half an hour!

Roller coaster is probably in most people's top three machines ever, if not their absolute favourite. It has everything, from the ability to pay a massive streak to all sorts of cheats and tricks for someone with a little knowledge to extract value from a fairly dead machine. I'd still like to know what 'ssswwaah' is supposed to say!

The £10 version would have to take a credit to go to the top on nemesis, so you could have a situation where it let you win the gamble from £6 but the machine would freeze/ quack to collect until you put more money in, at which point it would spin in the jackpot without you touching anything.

How do you get £90 from Rollercoaster? I've never seen it repeat more than 3 times. edit; amusingly I just put £20 in a £10 rollercoaster. Got a top that went to £40, then jackpot off super hold, another off 5 nudges, then big money coconuts for another £20. Plus a couple of £1.20s and thats a £82.40 collect!

It's a debate worthy of its own thread, so I've started one here...

I remember the fairplay thing clearly. However, I'd always been told these old bell fruit machines were a bit different, in that they only looked one step ahead on the climb and that was how to beat them. In other words, it didn't look two steps on and was happy to let you get to the top nudge pot, but wasn't expecting you to go against the previous number leaving you a 5-8 which it could reasonably kill you must of the time. They rarely killed you on numbers 1-3 and 10-12, so in order to win the cashpot you had to go against the odds to leave you a 'good' number for the final step. But what I've discovered here is that's bullshit. All numbers on the climb are pre-determined on feature entry, as is the prize you can climb to, just like Club Tropicana.

As I said, those are always the numbers. So if you go lower than the seven it still goes to 11 but you lose. I would say the machine has perhaps chosen all the numbers on the climb once it enters the feature, with the exception of the very top where it will kill you no matter which way you go on the five. In other words, it has decided it will let you climb to a certain height on the feature and you just have to pick the right numbers.

It's kind of odd though. No developer would code down to a level of specific outcomes such as 'spin plum plum apple bar, spin grape grape apple lemon. Gamble 11, 8, 7, 9' So why is the machine repeating that precise sequence?

Sort of a duplicate of the comment I left on Chop's thread here for anyone that wants to discuss 'fixed' machines... I was playing Club Attraction today and noticed from the RAM/GAM files saved on that post it ALWAYS lands grape, grape, pear, pear on the first spin, then plum, plum, apple, melon on the second. Then it offers a hold so you can hold the 3 an 2 on the plum and apple to get on the feature. It ALWAYS then spins lemon on reel 1, apple on 4 and a 10 for hi-lo gamble. The ten goes to a 7, then 11, 6, 8, 11, 10, 9, 5. If you go in any other direction you lose. And you always lose on the 5. That's not compensation. That's fixed!

Talking of compensation, I was playing Club Attraction today and noticed from the attached saved RAM/GAM files it ALWAYS lands grape, grape, pear, pear on the first spin, then plum, plum, apple, melon on the second. Then it offers a hold so you can hold the 3 an 2 on the plum and apple to get on the feature. It ALWAYS then spins lemon on reel 1, apple on 4 and a 10 for hi-lo gamble. The ten goes to a 7, then 11, 6, 8, 11, 10, 9, 5. If you go in any other direction you lose. And you always lose on the 5. That's not compensation. That's fixed! You can find a zip with all other required files here. CLUB_ATTRACTION £150Dx.gam CLUB_ATTRACTION £150Dx.ram

Interesting. A game can be left in a particular state from the 'reset', just like a ram file uploaded here can be dead or gagging. Presumably there is some code in the game that says it has to drop the silver pot after its taken x amount of money / spins that can be in addition to / override the RNG selection. That does sound like back-door compensation to me.

Gamblers looking for compensated behaviour in a random game are on a dangerous path. The whole point of a random is you theoretically can get back-to-back jackpots. That's why its so hard to walk away. It almost certainly wasn't blocking - merely that the odds of a jackpot are very very long.

It's far worse now, because losses on randoms are essentially unlimited. At least with the compensated machines you would win something eventually.

Here you go Vecs It's a funny old game. This morning I had both pots AND a £75 cash trail within a tenner. Other times, even though it's gagging, you just get unlucky on the climb and it can cost far more - especially as you have to reverse out the pots. attraction.zip