andrew96

nope, I am saying in REAL machines the patching of the use of a lamp table (single number instead of 3 used in the real chr chip lamp table) causes issues in real machines, I dont know about MFME as I only have interest in real machine stuff

I have heard it happens but cannot give you any more advice on what machines ( I been waiting for one digital pic of the top door switch arrangement on a red gaming cab now since the start of the red dwarf project, and after asking the arcade owner lots of times I am still waiting years later.... so not a answer on what machines work incorrectly with fixed lamp table I am going to get I think!!) the chr table is fixed and that's not the issue, that is not too much of a hassle to overcome, its the 3 x scan of the lamp table with different figures that is the head scratcher!! The emulator is just that, it emulates! it is not the same as running real hardware as we know! More work needs to be done to recreate the 3 different tables used.. but don't think that's going to happen as MFME is now fixed with just one set of figures and the author is not about to look into this or change it, Just a heads up if using a patched lamp table in the rom its not likely to play correctly in a real machine... I can't be any more help than that really, MFME is beyond me.

Thanks for the tag, yes interesting for sure! I still cannot make out why the real chr chip sends out 3 different figures for the same byte sent to it when interrogated 3 times in a row, where as a different figure that's constant is used for mfme and it takes that as correct..... but there definitely is something in using the real chr chip when it reads the different figures which makes it payout the correct percentage, and when patched with the single figure the percentage goes out the window! Patching is definitely good for mfme as it allows you to play the game! but in a real machine..... well I definitely would not want to play one in a arcade that's been patched like that! worse than the fairground traveling fairs rom hacks!! It still needs working on for sure to work in the 3 different values returned in the lamp table for the same byte! barcrest did a good job in protecting it all in a good few ways which we have not yet hacked entirely!

It seems most post a introduction just to get the points and download then you never hear of them again! they are not interested in being a part of the community. Possibly a bit harsh and not easy to implement but my 2p's worth is if someone that uses there limits and downloads has not interreacted with any posts (and not just saying a generic 'that's good' etc) within a certain time frame ( 3 or 6 months say) should have to go back to having to post some introduction again and perhaps after so many strikes they are out... as I say just my view

epic!! glad you have found it useful!

yeah I found that site some years ago now... I liked a lot of the designs on there too! sadly none I could find in the UK at that time, and still think there is still none in the UK.... I guess its mostly the big bowling places in the states that keep this carpet alive! (I can't help much.... but sometimes a subject comes up that I have had dealings with lol)

https://valuecarpetinc.com/product-category/neon-carpet-and-rugs/

or bowling carpet I personally wanted this for my workshop! sadly no suppliers in the uk!

just do a google search for arcade carpet!!

Anyway I am just passing on what has been found out in a real machine with a patched fixed 1 lamp table. It definitely makes for poor play in some machines. Maybe in some machines its perfect.....but who knows which roms were written with this wider implication in them to prevent CHR hacks! I agree rom patching is good for MFME as your not playing with real money, its for the fun of it! but in a real machine in a real arcade it is dangerous for sure!!!

so why would barcrest go to the trouble of putting 3 different lamp tables in which are accessed all the time rather than one character check table which is just stepped through in sequence....... lamp tables in some places are not stepped through in sequence in a real machine giving different step codes. Unless someone goes through the code step by step seeing what it does and how it interreacts in software we will never know! but Barcrest went to some trouble with some tricks it seems to me.

To do this your need a real chip first on a program card, then something like I have (and shown in the earlier pages) a fluke 9010 and a 6809 pod, and a working mpu4, then use the fluke to interrogate the 3 different tables it contains for the lamps (as I have said before none of these match the MFME table and I could find no connection between the 3 inside the chip and the one on MFME), then use the tables to create a PIC chip which gives out the right data in the sequence when needed, and design a plug in pcb which plugs in place of the CHR chip which will contain the PIC chip on, then all will be good!! That's one way round it!! the other way is to patch the rom and put up with the poor play the machine gives... which I think will be the current option people will do!

oh MPU3, I was going to look into the CHR on those but was told no point as they are easy to patch out and are easily done! threads are about showing how easy it is! As for MPU4....... I am not planning to do any more on this front, My aim was to work out how its done, which I found and even a simple Microchip PIC chip could easily emulate a real CHR. Rather like Barcrest moved to PIC chips on MPU5! I doubt anyone would want to take up the challenge as its always 'end user cost' that's the big problem, things manufactured are always to expensive for fruit machine collectors it seems! but no such constraints when it comes to pinball, people will shell out several hundred for a new remanufactured pinball MPU! seems so different!! So if anyone fancies the challenge it is up for grabs!! I won't be going any further now, in fact in the past year I have very much moved away from fruit machine related electronics. I lost a lot of interest over the time and am at the end now of doing anything more really

Basically at NO POINT does the lamp table in MFME match ANY of the 3 tables in the real CHR chip, the software code somehow comes up with the right lamp table from the 3 tables in the CHR chip!! If the software can do that it is very likely so mother manipulation is taken place for percentages too. I guess its fine for MFME where your not playing with actual cash! but not good for real machines!

Well after extensive testing, here is what I have found since last year........ the patching of the rom to exclude the CHR check is fine...... it is the lamp table that is causing problems with machines! the lamps may well be correct, but it seriously messes with the percentage making some real machines really really bad!! MFME uses one set of lamp figures where in a real chip it uses 3 DIFFERENT tables to get the lamp table, therefore MFME sorta 'fudges' the figures to work! but I believe the real CHR chip with its different tables may be also seeding some percentage calculation too. Barcrest do seem to have MPU4 buttoned up really well when they did the CHR chips! So patching roms may or may not work for you....

yes you need to fault find it, how far is the power getting? measure with a multimeter

If you add a note acceptor the float it needs goes up by £100, plus the cost of the note acceptor and wiring, possibly also a note update for new notes. for home use it is not really worth it IMO

Machines don't have stereo sound! they are just designed to make noise! they didn't design HiFi sound designed into them

barcrest mpu5 top boxes are run from a mux5 board controlled by the mpu (running lights around the edge on e-rio b3 machines) but some just have a backlit fluorescent behind a decal! it depended on what the arcade was wanting to spend on them I guess! The progressive S16 pots were also controlled.

If your buying a 4k monitor or tv....... remember they fool you by marketing these as 4k when in actual fact they are UHD, when you investigate you find they don't have enough pixels to be 4K so your brand new 4K tv is likely NOT to be 4K but UHD!! (I know I know your only loosing about a inch and a half but it is still wrong of them!) 3840 x 2160 pixels (UHD) 4096 x 2160 pixels (true 4K)

only 8k, that's old hat, 16k is all the rage https://robbreport.com/gear/tvs/sony-16k-crystal-led-tv-2869489/

Sadly their is always someone that takes a dislike and wants to do their upmost to make it difficult, I myself post very little now as came to the similar conclusions as you, the less you post the less your in the limelight for someone to want to make things difficult and have a snipe! Keep the hobby behind closed doors and not publicise it! I myself am so much happier not having to read the nastiness posted on threads I posted on (not on this forum thankfully) It does seem technology and the world is getting worse not better to me!

There is the red gaming ones unlit from my future red dwarf cab..... if that's anyhelp

That's so nice!!!

Sadly there will always be haters, I was subject to similar on another forum and sadly the mods did nothing so I no longer visit let alone post there! I think they are jealous of the knowledge others have so like to harass you until they win! good on ya Reg for dealing with it!!!