redbags Posted November 6, 2024 Report Share Posted November 6, 2024 The game is a 5 reel x 3 line video slot. I have some reel strips. Each strip (array) has 60 elements. There are a total of 9 possible symbols - one of which is a wild and one of which is a pot. Three pots or more anywhere on screen give the pot bonus, four gives super pot bonus and five gives jackpot. The game has 10 win lines. My approach for finding all of the possible wins and thus calculating the RTP would be something like looping through reel 1 array, nested loop through reel 2, nested loop through reel 3, nested loop through reel 4, nested loop through reel 5, check the values for each win line against each symbol set and so forth. This will literally be billions of calculations. (I forgot to mention there are 16 reel sets in total.) Question I have is can anyone think of a faster way of doing this? I will code around certain rules to avoid over calculating. Example - stop processing when no three symbols match on a winline. I'm also looking at other rules such as when symbol K is on reel 1, position 2 and also present on reel 2 then I know the other symbols on reel1 can never line up for a win. But even that is starting to make the code overly complicated. If anyone has any ideas on how they would approach it I would love to hear. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedude2 Posted November 6, 2024 Report Share Posted November 6, 2024 I've used Slot Designer in the past and that can spit out the correct RTP in seconds by stepping through each reel combination. It's ridiculous how fast it does it - must have taken a lot of work and refinement to get it to that standard. And that's through actual analysis, not simulation. Costs 10k Australian dollars for a year's license though. Or you could calculate the RTP on a spreadsheet. Seems a simple enough game - once you've done one reelset you can just copy the page 16 times and paste the other reelstrips in, and then put the weightings between each reelset in as well and voila! Maybe I read your post wrong though - do you have the RTP already and are simply trying to prove the maths via this program? It sounds easy what you're trying to do but I don't think it is. That's why simulation ends up being relied upon and not the true value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 6, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2024 21 minutes ago, stevedude2 said: I've used Slot Designer in the past and that can spit out the correct RTP in seconds by stepping through each reel combination. It's ridiculous how fast it does it - must have taken a lot of work and refinement to get it to that standard. And that's through actual analysis, not simulation. Costs 10k Australian dollars for a year's license though. Or you could calculate the RTP on a spreadsheet. Seems a simple enough game - once you've done one reelset you can just copy the page 16 times and paste the other reelstrips in, and then put the weightings between each reelset in as well and voila! Maybe I read your post wrong though - do you have the RTP already and are simply trying to prove the maths via this program? It sounds easy what you're trying to do but I don't think it is. That's why simulation ends up being relied upon and not the true value. I'm approaching it from the point of view that I have the reel sets and want to use it to calculate rtp of each set. The game in question is using multiple reel sets and my hunch is multiple rtps are achieved by using an unknown weights across the different sets. If I can figure out the rtp of each set I should be able to figure out the weight. I suspect there is a much faster method than the one I outlined in my original post. But if worse comes to worse I'll just brute it out. But if anyone has any ideas then please share. Also 10k for a slot program is out of my hobby league. This is just an interest vs doing anything commercial. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 6, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2024 One thing I do notice is that the winlines are defined in the game as between 0 - 14 so appear to be referencing the overall set of reels as a single array. Example: - 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 I also notice they define NOT_symbolX which isn't obvious why. I wonder if there is perhaps some performance trick here where you convert it into binary and a comparison that way or such like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 6, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2024 OK answering my own question here but sharing to give anyone interested some insight. I only needed to do the comparison between array1 and array2 and find the matches. This whittled the result set down to a much more manageable 4788 combinations which needed to be processed further to find three of a kind, and then four of a kind etc. Sometimes it helps to type out loud when you're focusing on a challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedude2 Posted November 6, 2024 Report Share Posted November 6, 2024 (edited) SymbolX is the scatter symbol I take it? Edited November 6, 2024 by stevedude2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 6, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2024 2 hours ago, stevedude2 said: SymbolX is the scatter symbol I take it? No it's present for all symbol types.....by X I meant not_symbolking for example. I don't really know why you would define something like that expect for possible performance reasons. I haven't actually done the calculations for scatters yet. Will do that this evening hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedude2 Posted November 6, 2024 Report Share Posted November 6, 2024 (edited) Maybe it's used for the win analysis? Like {K},{K},{K},{not_K,not_Wild},{anything} gives you all your hits for 3 of-a-kind Kings? Those win line arrays are unfamiliar to me. Usually you see the rows defined from top to bottom rather than each reel position, so a line that reads 0,1,2,1,0 would be a V-shape, 1,1,1,1,1 would be line 1 through the middle and so on. But then I'm not a software developer, never written a line of code in my life. All I've ever done in the past is hand over game maths, usually calculated on a spreadsheet (and the last time was a few years ago now), and then the dev imports it in whatever way they see fit. I'm assuming what you're working with is source code you've got from somewhere? You'd think there would be weightings for how often the reelsets get used really, because they could be absolutely anything - there's loads of ways of reaching the desired RTP% from weightings but they'll all play a different game in terms of profile/volatility and so on. Even knowing what the total of the weighting values added up to would help. Calculating the hits for the scatters is a piece of piss - (n = number of scatters on each reel | the *3 is because the reel window is three rows in height | 60 is the number of symbols on a reel) 5 of a kind - (n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) 4 of a kind - ((n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) x (60-(n*3))) + the other 4 reel permutations OOOXO, OOXOO, OXOOO and XOOOO, where X is the reel that no scatter landed on 3 of a kind - ((n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) x (60-(n*3) x (60-(n*3))) + the other 10 permutations OOXOX, OXOOX... XXOOO Probably telling you what you already know but at least others can see as well to maybe stimulate some discussion. Best of luck with it Edited November 6, 2024 by stevedude2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 7, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2024 (edited) 11 hours ago, stevedude2 said: Maybe it's used for the win analysis? Like {K},{K},{K},{not_K,not_Wild},{anything} gives you all your hits for 3 of-a-kind Kings? Those win line arrays are unfamiliar to me. Usually you see the rows defined from top to bottom rather than each reel position, so a line that reads 0,1,2,1,0 would be a V-shape, 1,1,1,1,1 would be line 1 through the middle and so on. But then I'm not a software developer, never written a line of code in my life. All I've ever done in the past is hand over game maths, usually calculated on a spreadsheet (and the last time was a few years ago now), and then the dev imports it in whatever way they see fit. I'm assuming what you're working with is source code you've got from somewhere? You'd think there would be weightings for how often the reelsets get used really, because they could be absolutely anything - there's loads of ways of reaching the desired RTP% from weightings but they'll all play a different game in terms of profile/volatility and so on. Even knowing what the total of the weighting values added up to would help. Calculating the hits for the scatters is a piece of piss - (n = number of scatters on each reel | the *3 is because the reel window is three rows in height | 60 is the number of symbols on a reel) 5 of a kind - (n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) 4 of a kind - ((n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) x (60-(n*3))) + the other 4 reel permutations OOOXO, OOXOO, OXOOO and XOOOO, where X is the reel that no scatter landed on 3 of a kind - ((n*3) x (n*3) x (n*3) x (60-(n*3) x (60-(n*3))) + the other 10 permutations OOXOX, OXOOX... XXOOO Probably telling you what you already know but at least others can see as well to maybe stimulate some discussion. Best of luck with it Thanks @stevedude2. I've had to park the pots calcs for now whilst I focus on the symbol calcs so your post will come in handy when I get to it. I've currently been dragged into writing hundreds of lines of code and it's all getting a bit messy. I've just finished calculating all of the three of a kind wins across all 10 win lines (except for pots) and I'm getting 156005 results and it's taking 22 mins to complete which is too long. I can live with it but also know I can be doing something better here. Re: the weights - I don't see anything obvious to indicate weights but it could be an oversight on my part. So my thought process is calculate the rtp for each set of reels and use that figure out the weight or at least narrow it down. Here is a pivot of the reel data. If you want to cast your eye over it perhaps there is some insight you can share. Be curious to see if it's simple enough based on the below to calculate odds of three pots for example. Edited November 7, 2024 by redbags additional comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedude2 Posted November 7, 2024 Report Share Posted November 7, 2024 (edited) Calculating the number of hits for the pot symbols is a lot easier than the line wins - I'll explain why in a minute. I used the v1 symbol distributions from your pic above and got these numbers for the pots below (sorry - cell N32 is 664848) - The line wins can be a bit more difficult to do when you've got wild symbols on all reels. This is because when you're calculating the hits for a line win, let's say 4 of-a-kind K, you'll include the wild symbols in there as well, because wilds will substitute for K. This means you can end up with more hits than you've actually got, because if you look at the composition of those hits, such as KKKK-, or KWWK-, some of them will look like this - WWWK-, and also WWWW-. If the prize for a 4 of-a-kind wild line win is greater than that of four Kings (and it usually will be), you won't be paying that as a 4 of-a-kind K win, you'll be paying it as four wilds, as it's worth more. Those hits would be deducted from the number of hits for 4 of-a-kind K and added to the number of hits for 4 of-a-kind wilds. So you have to be able to compare the awards and filter out the combinations that are paid as wilds. If both awards are identical you can either count it as a wild win or a symbol win, but never both otherwise you'll have those hits appearing twice. You'll need the award values to be able to see what hits need to be counted as wild wins instead of normal symbols wins. The number 156005 for the 3 of-a-kind line win hits should end in a 0 if you've got 10 lines in play. A better approach might be to fix the game to 1 line and work out the hits that way. You'll find that when you add more lines the hits should increase linearly - extra lines are just extra ways to win, each line should return the same RTP%. There are exceptions; for example on a slot where there's a sticky wild in the middle of reel 3, any line going through that position would get more hits and return more money than ones not going through it. But this looks like a simple game and the number of lines will be irrelevant. If you use one line only you'll pick everything up in your analysis without having to worry about what symbols are outside of that line. Edited November 7, 2024 by stevedude2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 7, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2024 7 minutes ago, stevedude2 said: Calculating the number of hits for the pot symbols is a lot easier than the line wins - I'll explain why in a minute. I used the v1 symbol distributions from your pic above and got these numbers for the pots below (sorry - cell N32 is 664848) - The line wins can be a bit more difficult to do when you've got wild symbols on all reels. This is because when you're calculating the hits for a line win, let's say 4 of-a-kind K, you'll include the wild symbols in there as well, because wilds will substitute for K. This means you can end up with more hits than you've actually got, because if you look at the composition of those hits, such as KKKK-, or KWWK-, some of them will look like this - WWWK-, and also WWWW-. If the prize for a 4 of-a-kind wild line win is greater than that of four Kings, you won't be paying that as a 4 of-a-kind K win, you'll be paying it as four wilds, as it's worth more. So you have to be able to compare the awards and filter out the combinations that are paid as wilds. If both awards are identical you can either count it as a wild win or a symbol win, but never both otherwise you'll have those hits appearing twice. You'll need the award values to be able to see what hits need to be counted as wild wins instead of normal symbols wins. The number 156005 for the 3 of-a-kind line win hits should end in a 0 if you've got 10 lines in play. A better approach might be to fix the game to 1 line and work out the hits that way. You'll find that when you add more lines the hits should increase linearly - extra lines are just extra ways to win, each line should return the same RTP%. There are exceptions; for example on a slot where there's a sticky wild in the middle of reel 3, any line going through that position would get more hits and return more money than ones not going through it. But this looks like a simple game and the number of lines will be irrelevant. If you use one line only you'll pick everything up in your analysis without having to worry about what symbols are outside of that line. At the moment I'm just generating all of the winlines and will go back and do value calculation later. And yes the figure 156005 was incorrect - it's lower now as I had a bit of fuzzy logic in there to account for the wilds which wasn't correct. I've also taken a slightly different approach and got the job down to > 1min to run. For the line calculation I have a question. On this particular game you cannot pick the lines. Looking at line 1 3OAK results there are 9541 permutations excluding pots. But looking another set of results for say winline 7 - there are 9520 permutations. If I follow your logic - should each line produce the same amount of permutations which might suggest I have issues with my code? Additionally - looking at the symbol distribution per symbol - should I be able to calculate the permutations in advance of actually running through them all to verify? Sorry for all the questions. Appreciate your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedude2 Posted November 7, 2024 Report Share Posted November 7, 2024 There shouldn't be a difference in the number of hits between lines, no. If you're stepping through the reels so each of the 777,600,000 combinations are analysed once, each line would see the same winning combinations as the other. The win line arrays could be anything as long as they occupy one position per reel, and you should get matching results between each one. On a simple game like this anyway. I suspect it might be an issue with something that happens rarely, like when you get a combination like W-W-W-POT-A which has wilds and scatters in the same line win or something. It might not be seeing that in the right way. You should be able to calculate the hits for each win just using the symbol distribution, yes. That's usually how it's done. You don't need to worry about the layout of the reelstrips; all that affects is the profile of the game. You can bunch all the symbols together in stacks for a lumpy game, or spread them out so you get a high hit rate - none of that will affect the percentage return, just the volatility. You need the award values though in order to work out the percentage contribution of each win type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnparker007 Posted November 7, 2024 Report Share Posted November 7, 2024 This is a nice application of spreadsheets guys I do like a good spreadsheet. 1 [ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: https://tinyurl.com/2kcrkprh | Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo [ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665 [ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz [ Fruit Machine ROM Archive ] The archive: https://tinyurl.com/3jhzbueb [ Fruit Machine Settings/Tests Guide ] https://tinyurl.com/yuebw8b5 [ MAME (fixes/improvements) ] Commits: https://github.com/johnparker007/mame/commits/master/?author=johnparker007 [ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch [ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis [ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 7, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2024 30 minutes ago, stevedude2 said: There shouldn't be a difference in the number of hits between lines, no. If you're stepping through the reels so each of the 777,600,000 combinations are analysed once, each line would see the same winning combinations as the other. The win line arrays could be anything as long as they occupy one position per reel, and you should get matching results between each one. On a simple game like this anyway. I suspect it might be an issue with something that happens rarely, like when you get a combination like W-W-W-POT-A which has wilds and scatters in the same line win or something. It might not be seeing that in the right way. You should be able to calculate the hits for each win just using the symbol distribution, yes. That's usually how it's done. You don't need to worry about the layout of the reelstrips; all that affects is the profile of the game. You can bunch all the symbols together in stacks for a lumpy game, or spread them out so you get a high hit rate - none of that will affect the percentage return, just the volatility. You need the award values though in order to work out the percentage contribution of each win type. For now I'm dropping the lines when the pots appear on a win line so maybe this explains the discrepancy. I'm also only processing array items 0 through to 57 on a 60 element (arrays start at 0 so 59 is the last element) and not wrapping the reels so this might also be an oversight. I'll take a stab at doing the calcs later with excel. I'm sure I hit issues with neverending numbers when I tried this previously so felt like it wasn't sure precise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 7, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2024 2 hours ago, stevedude2 said: There shouldn't be a difference in the number of hits between lines, no. If you're stepping through the reels so each of the 777,600,000 combinations are analysed once, each line would see the same winning combinations as the other. The win line arrays could be anything as long as they occupy one position per reel, and you should get matching results between each one. On a simple game like this anyway. I suspect it might be an issue with something that happens rarely, like when you get a combination like W-W-W-POT-A which has wilds and scatters in the same line win or something. It might not be seeing that in the right way. You should be able to calculate the hits for each win just using the symbol distribution, yes. That's usually how it's done. You don't need to worry about the layout of the reelstrips; all that affects is the profile of the game. You can bunch all the symbols together in stacks for a lumpy game, or spread them out so you get a high hit rate - none of that will affect the percentage return, just the volatility. You need the award values though in order to work out the percentage contribution of each win type. Perhaps you could sanity check something for me - been staring at the computer for too long. Looking at v1 of the reels and focusing on just wilds and three of a kind. Three reels at 60 possibilities each = 60*60*60 = 216000. I then use the following formula = (3/60)*(2/60)*(2/60) to get the odds of getting a wild which gives 0.00005555555.... I then multiple the total number of possibilities (216000) by the odds (0.0000555555) which gives me 11.99999999.....round it up for 12. Comparing that against my calculated set of records - I have 12 instances of wild, wild, wild per win line giving 120 in total. Finally dividing 216000 / 120 gives 0.000556. Meaning odds of hitting three wilds in a row on any reel is 1 in 1800. Does that sound right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedude2 Posted November 7, 2024 Report Share Posted November 7, 2024 (edited) You're on the right track but not quite... You need to be looking at what happens on all 5 reels with the win calculations, not just the first three, because some wins like W-W-W-JP-JP might be worth more than 3OAK wilds and won't count as 3OAK wild occurrences. Your calculation might be correct if the awards for 3/4/5OAK wilds are much greater than 3/4/5OAK JP symbols because that means you don't have to worry about what lands on reels 4 and 5 (as long as it's not another wild on reel 4, and then also one on reel 5). But even so, you need to calculate your hits of any win across all 5 reels and then divide by 60^5, not 60^3, even if you think the last two reels are irrelevant - for example, if there are no wilds on reel 4 and 5. Even though the wins you're trying to find are 3OAK, they are still across 5 reels so you need to run your calculations right to the last reel and then divide into the total combinations across those 5 reels (60^5 or 777,600,000). It's best practice and means even the really rare winning combinations will be picked up. If you cut corners and miss a few occurences they can be a right pain in the arse to find later. So for this game, if the 3OAK wild prize is greater than the prize for 5OAK JP symbols (and therefore you don't need to worry about filtering out wins that don't count as 3 OAK wilds), it would just be this for one line - Hits are 3 x 2 x 2 x (60-2) x 60 = 41760 Total Combinations across all 5 reels (60^5) = 777,600,000 777,600,000 / 41760 = 18621.69 Hit rate with all 10 win lines in play is 18621.69 / 10 = 1862.17 My result differs to yours because you're not accounting for the fact that a wild might land on reel 4 and then, rarely, on reel 5 as well, and those combinations will not pay as 3OAK wild wins. You're effectively doing this - 3 x 2 x 2 x 60 x 60 = 43200 Total Combinations across all 5 reels (60^5) = 777,600,000 777,600,000 / 43200 = 18000 10 win lines is 18000 / 10 = 1800 I always find the best practice is to get all your hits/occurrences of a win based on one line in play, then divide it into the total combinations to get your hit rate for one line. Then you can divide that by 10 or whatever according to how many lines the game is fixed to. That way you're not rounding numbers up or down until the end. The good news is that getting the wild win hits correct is the most difficult part. The hits for the rest of the symbols, and then the scatters is a piece of piss by comparison Edited November 7, 2024 by stevedude2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 8, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2024 @stevedude2cheers buddy. I used wilds and only three reels to try and simplify the sums for that specific example and because I have all of the three of a kind wins dumped out to a csv so had something to cross reference against. Armed with your knowledge above I will take do the calcs for all sets tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedude2 Posted November 8, 2024 Report Share Posted November 8, 2024 No worries If you fancy putting the award values up here I might do a spreadsheet for the v1 symbol distributions over the weekend if I get bored. Then we can compare our findings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 8, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2024 1 hour ago, stevedude2 said: No worries If you fancy putting the award values up here I might do a spreadsheet for the v1 symbol distributions over the weekend if I get bored. Then we can compare our findings I was in the process of going to ask you another question but if you want to take a stab at it then I for one would be very interested and will park it for now. I've zipped up a bunch of files which might be of interest. Let me know if you need anything further. data.zip 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedude2 Posted November 11, 2024 Report Share Posted November 11, 2024 Morning Here are the hits I'm getting for the v1 symbol distributions. W is Wild, P is Pot (scatter symbol) - I'm 99.9% sure I've calculated them correctly. The RTP% of the line wins comes in at 81.3036%. That's without the pots obviously, because I don't know what the pot seed values are, the fill rates or the weightings for winning one over the other and so on. These hits are based on 1 line, so just multiply them by 10 if your analysis has 10 lines in play Let me know how you get on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 11, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2024 (edited) 5 hours ago, stevedude2 said: Morning Here are the hits I'm getting for the v1 symbol distributions. W is Wild, P is Pot (scatter symbol) - I'm 99.9% sure I've calculated them correctly. The RTP% of the line wins comes in at 81.3036%. That's without the pots obviously, because I don't know what the pot seed values are, the fill rates or the weightings for winning one over the other and so on. These hits are based on 1 line, so just multiply them by 10 if your analysis has 10 lines in play Let me know how you get on Cheers mate. I'm getting very similar numbers to yours but I'm slightly off. I'm going to start at 5oak wilds and work back. I might shout if I can't crack it. Hands full at moment so hoping to take a good look later on this evening. Will also answer other questions as best I can. Edited November 11, 2024 by redbags 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 11, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2024 6 hours ago, stevedude2 said: Morning Here are the hits I'm getting for the v1 symbol distributions. W is Wild, P is Pot (scatter symbol) - I'm 99.9% sure I've calculated them correctly. The RTP% of the line wins comes in at 81.3036%. That's without the pots obviously, because I don't know what the pot seed values are, the fill rates or the weightings for winning one over the other and so on. These hits are based on 1 line, so just multiply them by 10 if your analysis has 10 lines in play Let me know how you get on Could I possibly look at your formula for 4OAK wilds? I'm on cell 2 and failing already haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedude2 Posted November 11, 2024 Report Share Posted November 11, 2024 (edited) You need to be looking for all instances of - WWWWP - 3x2x2x2x1 = 24 WWWWT - 3x2x2x2x11 = 264 WWWWJ - 3x2x2x2x8 = 192 WWWWQ - 3x2x2x2x10 = 240 WWWWK - 3x2x2x2x10 = 240 WWWWA - 3x2x2x2x9 = 216 Add them up and you get 1176 hits for 4OAK wilds out of the total combinations - 1 line. WWWW(JP) pays £25 so that doesn't count as a 4OAK wild win, as that only pays £20. The others all pay equal or less, so they're paid as 4 wilds. And obviously WWWWW counts as a 5OAK wild win. In essence the formula is 3x2x2x2x(60-2-9). But by breaking it down like further up it's easier to follow and see if you've caught everything. There's no other symbols in the game to have on the end, so that would be all hits covered Edited November 11, 2024 by stevedude2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbags Posted November 12, 2024 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2024 (edited) @stevedude2 I'm getting very close to your numbers but I'm missing something. See below: - 5OAK ME YOU DIFF TEN 718800 718536 264 JACK 395952 395760 192 QUEEN 248784 248544 240 KING 103632 103392 240 ACE 53313 53097 216 JP 80142 80142 0 WILD 48 48 0 If we use the 5OAK TENs as an example I am doing the following: - =(tencountreel1+wildcountreel1)*(tencountreel2+wildcountreel2)*(tencountreel3+wildcountreel3)*(tencountreel4+wildcountreel4)*(tencountreel5+wildcountreel5)-wild5oakhitstotal so...... =(15+3)*(14+2)*(14+2)*(10+2)*(11+2)-48 = 718800 I've tried a few different theories to try and get to your number but they are not working. Are you able to spot anything obvious? Cheers. Update - Oh I see it now. The difference is the same as your previous post. The W,W,W,W,T is not a winning line as the W,W,W,W pays more than W,W,W,W,T so is the winning line. Edited November 12, 2024 by redbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedude2 Posted November 12, 2024 Report Share Posted November 12, 2024 Yeah that's it - you have to take the WWWWT hits off as well as the WWWWW ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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