andrew96

ok last post for tonight..... these are the values for the lamp table in MFME so now I really do need to rig up the fluke 9020 and see if this matches the REAL chr chip!!

ok well so far so good............ CHR check and checksum removed from rom (no chr chip fitted lamps all over the place!!!! now same but WITH a chr chip fitted!! much more organised lamps!! so it looks like my plan might actually work!!! chr chip just needs to contain the lamp table!!!!!

ooohhhhhh perfect!!!! thankyou so much for that! That will be excellent resource for finding out the needed values for the PAL chip! I am working on doing barcrest 'Hyper Viper club' as that's the MPU4 machine I have and the way the lamps sweep across in attract mode will be a very good indicator if I have a real chip done correctly when I test it! I need now to get to grips with PAL chip latches as I have not used registered logic before and see it needs to read the info in, use a look up table to store it in a latch to be accessed when the cpu askes for it . all because it just has data in and data out pins! I am more used to having address pins in and data pins out!! so hence the latch!

This info should help others too trying to get games working but don't have the correct chr chip!

Cheers, it all takes time! yes I think now knowing more about the lamp table puts me on the way forward!!

I just find it interesting, electronics and real hardware. It's just understanding how its done! I've done a table before in a GAL chip when I had a bad custom prom go bad and there is no replacement for it, so made one from aa GAL chip to replace it, it worked well!

Thanks My next move is to check my theory of lamp table using the fluke 9020, if it is correct then make a lamp table gal chip, disable chr checking and checksum and see it it works just reading the lamp table, this is for barcrest machines, I am not going to look into BWB ones at this time cheers

cheers! it appears the last pic I attached in the post above has not appeared! here it is...

Many thanks Johnparker! the penny has dropped!!! /* CHR Tables */ static mpu4_chr_table andycp10c_data[72] = { {0x00, 0x00},{0x1a, 0x14},{0x04, 0x04},{0x10, 0x54},{0x18, 0x4c},{0x0f, 0x20},{0x13, 0x50},{0x1b, 0x44}, {0x03, 0x5c},{0x07, 0x78},{0x17, 0x70},{0x1d, 0x48},{0x36, 0x6c},{0x35, 0x60},{0x2b, 0x14},{0x28, 0x48}, {0x39, 0x2c},{0x21, 0x6c},{0x22, 0x6c},{0x25, 0x28},{0x2c, 0x64},{0x29, 0x10},{0x31, 0x08},{0x34, 0x6c}, {0x0a, 0x24},{0x1f, 0x5c},{0x06, 0x78},{0x0e, 0x34},{0x1c, 0x00},{0x12, 0x50},{0x1e, 0x00},{0x0d, 0x50}, {0x14, 0x0c},{0x0a, 0x6c},{0x19, 0x2c},{0x15, 0x60},{0x06, 0x54},{0x0f, 0x00},{0x08, 0x58},{0x1b, 0x74}, {0x1e, 0x00},{0x04, 0x14},{0x01, 0x4c},{0x0c, 0x60},{0x18, 0x1c},{0x1a, 0x74},{0x11, 0x4c},{0x0b, 0x64}, {0x03, 0x5c},{0x17, 0x78},{0x10, 0x78},{0x1d, 0x78},{0x0e, 0x34},{0x07, 0x44},{0x12, 0x54},{0x09, 0x40}, {0x0d, 0x50},{0x1f, 0x48},{0x16, 0x6c},{0x05, 0x28},{0x13, 0x60},{0x1c, 0x14},{0x02, 0x4c},{0x00, 0x00}, {0x00, 0x04},{0x01, 0x58},{0x04, 0x14},{0x09, 0x58},{0x10, 0x50},{0x19, 0x1c},{0x24, 0x10},{0x31, 0x10} }; In the link it shows a CHR table, interestingly sending #00 and receive #00 the first of the character check is then sent #1a and your in the chr table... but there is the bit on the end in red which looks like the lamp table routine!! send #00 receive #00 then send #00 and your in the lamp table! that's what it looks like to me, it is the right length too!! I need to set up the fluke 9020 troubleshooter up again to test this! but i think this could be it!!

Many thanks, my findings are in red!!

O

I have changed it but doesn't look like the changes have happened as i didn't press save!! lol hopefully ok now... sorry

Oh Thankyou john! that does look very interesting and I will have to spend some time reading it thoroughly! The character side is a challenge response just as you say, The CHR challenge / response table is in the rom! Orange is sent to the chr chip and yellow is the response from the CHR chip, as you say in sequence running through the table So I connected up my fluke trouble-shooter, thus takes the place of the CPU so you can basically BE the processor and send/receive and show data just like the CPU would, only you have complete control! you can see in the video below I send data #00 to address #800 (the address the CHR chip is accessed) its response is seen to be #00, actually the response back is #03 and the last 2 bits are discarded so it it becomes #00 you can then see I send the next in the table #1A and get the response when read back of #C3 (again last 2 bits will be discarded so #C0) you can see the video of the write and reads to and from the CHR chip on a REAL CHR chip and motherboard! https://youtu.be/FWioGzFdt7E Entering ANY codes out of sequence completely messes up the CHR response after that, that's why 'bit bashing' the CHR chip (applying codes to the input and seeing what is on the output) is totally useless and probably the reason why these CHR chips have never been able to be reproduced! I still yet have to find the lamp table!! and I don't mean one of these!

Thankyou Tommy, That's helpful. is there any way MFME can show the lamp table bytes?

thanks

On the character chip I am working on, orange is the data sent to the character chip, yellow is its answer, this concludes the character check table for the game. (this is the calculated value, the actual values returned as it drops bits 0 and 1) I don't know the lamp table codes after that yet! but trying to work on it.... perhaps I am asking in the wrong section of the forum? I thought there would be some s*it hot people that know MFME workings and could help

Hi, I am trying to work out the CHR chip in MPU4 and wondered of someone that had knowledge of running MPU4 in MFME might be able to help (as I know nothing on the pc emulation side, just real hardware) I know the character check is preformed by a question answer response by sending address #800. I understand how that works.... What is eluding me is the lamp table mapping also stored in the CHR chip, does anyone know if there is a different code sent to access this table? or does it continue to send and read from address #800 for this too once the chr response is done? I believe the lamp table is 8 bytes of info. so really my question is, does anyone know anything about this by looking at the debug side of MFME... I sort of know this can show what is going on in the code, but I have no experience of MFME so have no real idea about using it etc. Hopefully there is someone brainy that know the in's and out's of it ! many thanks in advance Andrew

cheers thanks! I would not be in any rush so that's not a problem, everything is on hold for now, but at somepoint the glass will need to come out to be reprinted and the reprinting will take some time so most likely around that time, It should have read above that I need to cut out more metal where the disco button is going to go as well, nothing is easy or quick lol

cheers! when I do take mine apart I will have to first it out to take the disco button first! will bear this in mind as electronics is my thing not paint spraying lol

that's nice! you can do my red dwarf one!!!

yes bands can be done and they have let me know they are ready for pickup, but for them to do them you have to do all the artwork yourself, they are not a 'one stop shop' where they do everything, if they did that it would far far outweigh the cost anyone would want to pay! recently over on the mecca some have got decals done and they were disappointed with them as the printing is already coming off and they have only just been done! The place I have them done are happy to do them for me as I do whatever is needed, I have spoken to them and they do now get calls from people off the forums wanting there bands etc done and they have had to say no to everyone as people don't have the right artwork format files for them to print! I did the reelband artwork in photoshop so consisted of the top artwork layer, bottom white layer and cut-out layer in vector form at the right dimensions all in a photoshop .PSD file (or .AL adobe illustrator format they use). also the plastic!! they cannot get the right stuff due to it all being used for covid screens! so you have to supply that too!! basically they just do the printing side! hope that explains it a bit more thoroughly..