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johnparker007

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37 minutes ago, serene02 said:

Watch Big J, he'll keep changing notes just to make out he's spending loads of money.  Also watch those plugs, he can't help himself, he's fast.   In fact, better still, switch the machines off when he rolls up!!

 

J

Plugs!!

the machines are wireless now it’s the 21st century, you have smack heads hanging around and special brew on tap these days 

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@Pook
"...forgive me for not fully understanding the technical side of your work but is there a way for FME designers to convert their work themselves?"

I made a comment about this further up the thread - the summary of which is that it is currently flakey at best at multiple stages, requires lots of manual steps, a knowledge of programming, Unity game engine, and the simulator internals.  

This will improve with time, but there's so much involved, with it in its current state... it's just all really complicated!  So I can't see this being possible for a very long while yet, but I myself should be able to get faster and more accurate at the conversion process - but there's still so much programming to do there, the list of bugs is pretty long.

The Sonic one the other night threw up some issues (similar to Indy), probably took me around 3 hours using my various semi-automated steps with various hacking/coding on the way.  But sometimes they are quick, maybe even 1 hour. 

In the very long term, it may be possible to write a new extractor (I guess the second step in the process, that can be ran after various information is compiled to build a converter config), though this would likely cost me months and may fall down compared to current (flakey) extraction technique and then would be of no use anyway.

Maybe it'll look more viable in ~6 months when I've done more on the project, but right now, the code that does the converting is in constant flux as is it's output.  I'd be better equipped to see how much more viable it looks at that point.

So I guess the TLDR of what was supposed to be a summary would be:

"Not possible now, that may change in future, but I really can't say for sure, it depends on a lot of factors".

And for completeness, here's my comments on this same question from earlier:

Quote

"Unfortunately there's still a lot of manual work involved, and lots of layouts currently don't work for a variety of reasons.  The initial layout extraction process is also super flakey and can do bad things (like literally start selecting files on the desktop and moving them around / deleting them!  Plus a recent memory leak, now fixed, meant it irreversibly corrupted a Perforce server running on my machine - it's pretty dangerous!).  And a strong knowledge of Unity game engine and the internals of the simulator are required - so for the medium term at least, I have to make the 3d machines using the layouts myself as a manual process, and there's just no way around that, it's a big technical obstacle (much I'd love it to be a nice magic one-click solution that spits out the 3d machines!)."

 

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[ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net  |  Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e  |  Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo
[ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665
[ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz
[ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch
[ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis
[ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor

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@Big J
"Would it be possible to play two or even three machines on the same screen on your simulator @johnparker007, you may not of got that far but you know I can't help but give you the third degree lol?"


Hmmm - I know there is a similar issue with the 'Party Time' type machines with the 3x slaves + top box.  It requires a chunk of overhead (CPU and some GPU) to run an MFME instance and capture it - so for those my initial thinking is to just run a single slave that you'd stand (sit?) at.

For 3x DES machines, I think that'd take around 50% of the CPU of my quad core i5 @ 4.7GHz just for the emulator.  Then I have scraping overhead x3, plus the single simulator overhead - so even if this were programmed it'd require a high end PC.  For running 3x old tech machines (MPU4 etc), the CPU demands will be much less.

There's no reason why it wouldn't be possible, and I will factor that in when doing this big overhaul that's coming up soon (to transition to hybrid machines that can run either emulator).  But it's not a high priority right now when there's so much else to do, and may e good to let computers get a bit faster on average as for DES machines it's going to kill anything that isn't a gaming rig tier CPU. 

Edited by johnparker007
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[ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net  |  Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e  |  Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo
[ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665
[ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz
[ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch
[ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis
[ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor

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3 minutes ago, johnparker007 said:

I made a comment about this further up the thread - the summary of which is that it is currently flakey at best at multiple stages, requires lots of manual steps, a knowledge of programming, Unity game engine, and the simulator internals

Thinking into the keyboard here so if this is bonkers then tell me to STFU but could converted layouts be passed to the creators to release themselves on here in perhaps a separate area or even separate site if they so please to do so? Of course I don't want to take anything away from this awesome forum but I'd be concerned about space so really that'd be up to Reg/pete

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39 minutes ago, slasher said:

Thinking into the keyboard here so if this is bonkers then tell me to STFU but could converted layouts be passed to the creators to release themselves on here in perhaps a separate area or even separate site if they so please to do so? Of course I don't want to take anything away from this awesome forum but I'd be concerned about space so really that'd be up to Reg/pete

The server(s) that serve the installer downloads/updates/multiplayer/online features I think I'll be writing/managing in Java (probably to mainly run on Amazon EC2 instances as pure java & Unity Asset Server instance). 

If creators wanted to release the layouts as standalone, that would be possible I think, but require a bunch of extra work to make this possible inside Arcade Sim to use them, and those then couldn't be used in shared arcades on Arcade Sim World, or even the local arcade designer (that works on the library).  They also wouldn't update, and be completely unsupportable with updates to the Arcade sim client.

So it would be possible with extra work I think, but break a bunch of different functionality, so mean they wouldn't be in the cloud library for people to use in shared arcade layouts/download, could break with updates to Arcade Sim etc. and also break Arcade Sim itself. 

Perhaps there could be a creators release area 'inside the client'?  That's the only way I can envisage it working in any kind of maintainable way.  So I'd be releasing/updating machines into the library so everything actually works and is maintainable.  But there is an associated post from the creator in that area in the client, and they tell me a time/date when they want their post to go live - when the post goes live, the machine is then live in the library.  Something like that could work, and could then be properly integrated into the system.

EDIT: To clear up what is meant above by 'updates' to machines:  as an example; currently the rendering is nowhere near finished, and all the components need tons of work.  So if I make a rendering improvement that requires regeneration of the Vfd characters - that's all machines with Vfds needing an update.  I add reel lamps - that's an update. I add a reflection to the glass - that's an update.  I do work on the 3d modelled buttons - that's an update... you get the idea.  Then when an update for Arcade Sim comes that contains the client-side aspect of these updates, that'd then need to be synced with the changed machine assets per machine that have also needed changes.  So the machines will be out of date on a weekly to monthly basis... and I have so many improvements planned, this will be going on for a long time.

Edited by johnparker007
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[ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net  |  Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e  |  Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo
[ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665
[ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz
[ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch
[ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis
[ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor

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Regarding the 'Updates' mentioned a post or two above;

When you look really hard into any subject like this, the amount of work far outweighs your original thoughts.

I asked for ideas regarding a freeware touchscreen jukebox program I was thinking of building recently on an FB group.

Originally, my plan was to build it over a couple of months - but then the suggestions came in...

...almost all good ideas, and would make a damn good system! But, wow! A few years work involved (at least).

 

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At the end of the day @johnparker007 you could keep your mouth shut and not give us any updates but you do and is so much appreciated, at least you don't hide in the shadows and explain nothing and as far as I am concerned................

 

 

................Rome wasn't built in a day!!

You crack on bud as all this time in you explaining things wastes precious time on you fixing bugs amongst a million other things.

 

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7 hours ago, adam763 said:

...almost all good ideas, and would make a damn good system! But, wow! A few years work involved (at least).

 

Adam pretty much nails a big part of it here.  If I had a team of developers working fulltime, some things would be more feasible - but I started work I think around the start of October 2020 thinking I'd have something out for Xmas. 

It's now May and with various changes in direction, and over-optimistic estimates by me, there's still a few months before a pre-Alpha looks feasible.

And this is with me working at an unsustainable rate - I am currently doing a good 80 hours software development work per week (day job and arcade sim), and have been since October.

So please bear that in mind - suggestions such as:

- a standalone one-click converter for previewing 2d -> 3d conversions on a layout artist's local machine

is an excellent idea, no doubt about that.  But that in itself could take me a year (and not ultimately yield fruit, still requiring additional manual steps/specialist knowledge).  I'm just one guy here :) 

And when lockdown's properly lifted I will need to be getting out there and do some socialising too so the work rate will go down, I've only been so focussed as there's literally nothing else to do with my life, living alone through this pandemic.

I am confident if we can stay the course together, and address people's concerns along the way (the recent change to move onto making hybrid MFME/MAME machines next for instance) - we will ultimately have an Arcade Simulator we can all play on and contribute to :) 

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[ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net  |  Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e  |  Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo
[ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665
[ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz
[ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch
[ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis
[ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor

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Have made a start on the 'hybrid machine' stuff.  Few teething problems to sort out but it's gone surprisingly well so far :) 

So in the top-right I have some green debug text, showing the current emulator it's using.  I change it and when the machine next starts it uses the new value (so I'm switching back and forth between MFME -> MAME -> MFME... etc).

MFME has some stuttering/out of sync audio - I think this is down to some stuff I have left to do that's currently set up for making MAME work correctly, so hopefully another night and I should have them both running roughly correctly on the same machine.

 

Edited by johnparker007
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[ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net  |  Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e  |  Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo
[ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665
[ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz
[ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch
[ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis
[ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor

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@johnparker007 The arcade project is looking fantastic, thanks for devoting your free time to this, really very much appreciated .Can I ask out of curiosity, in the videos , when you launch arcade sim , the camera glides over the carpet to the fruit machine you chose to play and settles at a static view facing the fruit machine front on. My question is "are there any further camera controls available to the player , such as moving , rotating / panning and zooming in/out the camera at this point , a sort of free look mode or is that just not viable ? 

 

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50 minutes ago, char042102 said:

@johnparker007 The arcade project is looking fantastic, thanks for devoting your free time to this, really very much appreciated .Can I ask out of curiosity, in the videos , when you launch arcade sim , the camera glides over the carpet to the fruit machine you chose to play and settles at a static view facing the fruit machine front on. My question is "are there any further camera controls available to the player , such as moving , rotating / panning and zooming in/out the camera at this point , a sort of free look mode or is that just not viable ? 

 

When the camera is in static view (when the machine is engaged), the plan is to provide further camera controls.  Not sure how they will work yet - I think I did  a post about it somewhere further back in the thread.

I think the ideas were:
- holding right mouse button would give you 'free look' whilst stood on the spot in front of the machine, so you could look up/down/behind you etc
- using the mouse scroll wheel to zoom in/out, and potentially holding middle mouse button to pan
- something for a 'reel peeking' mode so the camera goes low and close to the glass where the reels are so you can peer inside the machine and see symbols further back up the reel etc

Nothing implemented yet, but definitely planned - the camera all needs a complete rewrite. (...and of course in VR you'd just move/rotate your actual head ;) )

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[ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net  |  Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e  |  Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo
[ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665
[ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz
[ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch
[ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis
[ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor

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@johnparker007 absolutely amazing , thanks ,that answers my question perfectly, it would really enhance the experience, immensely ,  especially zooming in to specific areas of the board  and looking around ,then zooming out and carrying on play.

I think the "peek feature" will have @Chopaholic wearing holes at the knees of his jeans as the hard, washed out denim, collides and frictionates with the plush Westminster carpet. I wonder if we could have the seated lady attendant, glaring over from the "change booth" wondering " what's he upto on that machine , thinking something dodgy's going on lol.

Jokes aside, really look forward to the final outcome of this fantastic project jp007 , it's coming along very nicely indeed , and many thanks again. 

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2 hours ago, johnparker007 said:

I think I did  a post about it somewhere further back in the thread.

 

I have a suggestion for you if you haven't thought of it already as I know you have a lot on your plate but would it be a good idea when you get ideas from members on here to catalogue exactly where you can pinpoint it, via a copied link or screenshot (which would be saved in a folder) so you can put your hand straight on that idea if you want to implement it or even just be reminded about it?

I.e, @char042102 and many others, it will save you trawling through this thread and lets face it that there is going to be a lot more pages to this thread than just "a few more" lol. 

Just an idea as when things are more organised life seems a little less stressful and with what is on your plate bud you should consider it.

Might be a soppy idea but a shot in the dark eh;)

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2 hours ago, Big J said:

I have a suggestion for you if you haven't thought of it already as I know you have a lot on your plate but would it be a good idea when you get ideas from members on here to catalogue exactly where you can pinpoint it, via a copied link or screenshot (which would be saved in a folder) so you can put your hand straight on that idea if you want to implement it or even just be reminded about it?

I.e, @char042102 and many others, it will save you trawling through this thread and lets face it that there is going to be a lot more pages to this thread than just "a few more" lol. 

Just an idea as when things are more organised life seems a little less stressful and with what is on your plate bud you should consider it.

Might be a soppy idea but a shot in the dark eh;)


I got a few organisational bits going on ;) 

There's trello:
image.thumb.png.2f6cc601e39320f860ae0415ddebc448.png


That list and the one on the left are 'boards', here's a sample of one of my boards:

image.thumb.png.c0b590d4a39f1ec0429705088e60e2ae.png


Plus I have around 10 separate google docs spreadsheets setup for various stuff, from donation tracking, to layout artist permission tracking, to MAME bugs, the fruit machine database...

Also, this forum has a search, so you can search for keywords in this 37 long megathread :) 

I do find it's more zen to be vaguely organised - otherwise you end up trying to keep it all 'in your head', and it's hard to know what you're doing (on a large project) :) 

 

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[ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net  |  Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e  |  Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo
[ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665
[ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz
[ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch
[ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis
[ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor

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34 minutes ago, johnparker007 said:


I got a few organisational bits going on ;) 

There's trello:
image.thumb.png.2f6cc601e39320f860ae0415ddebc448.png


That list and the one on the left are 'boards', here's a sample of one of my boards:

image.thumb.png.c0b590d4a39f1ec0429705088e60e2ae.png


Plus I have around 10 separate google docs spreadsheets setup for various stuff, from donation tracking, to layout artist permission tracking, to MAME bugs, the fruit machine database...

Also, this forum has a search, so you can search for keywords in this 37 long megathread :) 

I do find it's more zen to be vaguely organised - otherwise you end up trying to keep it all 'in your head', and it's hard to know what you're doing (on a large project) :) 

 

:wow:John:wow: that is supercool bud, it doesn't surprise me you crossing every T and dotting every I and thanks for sharing, very much appreciated although your thread is an exhilarating step by step process, must be a great relief for you to fill up that "Done" list;)

 

It is in no way a comparison but starting to see a little what designers of emulators/simulators go through with their engineering process and it is obviously mentally draining at times and without a doubt one would have to have superhot organisation skills or things would most probably become a real mess, think history has proven that with things coming and going.

I bet the bigger list is the "Backlog" lol but have total faith in you John, amazing stuff bud, truly amazing!!!

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