Development Updates

[slasher]

7 minutes ago, Reg said:

shit bomb this post for all I care.

Yeah please don't do this people. It's good to have sensible discussion and I feel some good points have been raised here too.

My theory is the reason it's being done in the way it is, is so it can actually be an out of the box thing, as mame can be bundled in with it so it can work from the off.

The other reason I believe it's being done is because it's easier to focus on the same part for both MFME and MAME, rather than do it for MFME and have to re visit later. At present, the MAME side is playing catch up to what's already been implemented for MFME. 

Both of these could be completely wrong of course, but either way, I'd like to see a release of the arcade simulator whatever road it goes down, as I'm sure most of us would.

 

[serene02]

Totally agree, MAME is way off the perfection that is mfme.  FME needs to progress, I’d love to see mfme as the main emulator, maybe a compromise, no one wants to damage Chris’ legacy.  That’s not what this project is about.  It’s about taking fme down a new avenue since mfme can no longer be updated or enhanced further.

J

[Reg]

11 minutes ago, vectra666 said:

Wasn’t yourself @Regand others against mfme being added in this arcade sim. Something about going against wizards wishes? (A few pages back in this thread)  So that’s why @johnparker007 started implementing mame into the mix which has slowed things down 

we all know my views on this project 

Yes and I've never said I wasn't.  

Read carefully what I have written.

My thoughts are if the focus returned to MFME then when machines are built all the assets will be available for a switch to MAME with all the MFME authors likely onboard as their MFME product was used for MFME in the inclusion of this.

I can't see the problem in not switching back to the MFME version and building up substantial assets for MFME that can then be used in the MAME one where we know the emulator needs so much work.

Show me exactly at what point I have said include MFME in this, I have not due to Chis and his legacy and the conversation I had with @johnparker007. 

[serene02]

I think slasher is on the money, an out of the box experience.  

J

[johnparker007]

This does need to work 'out of the box', so the base emulator is now MAME.

It's a really complex project, and now I have to support two fruit machine emulation platforms, I have to make all that actually work.

At some point I need to look at further work on some form of hybrid machine that supports both emulators from the same instance of the machine - otherwise it's having two copies of the same machine, one for MFME and one for MAME - which is not the way to go.

This has all taken a ton of time so far, I work 40+hrs per week on day job, then work on this, and also eat and sleep - there's not much time for anything else!  If I won the lottery, I would be able to work on this fulltime and we get progress quicker, but this is as fast as I can go... 

So for now, I'll keep on with the plan of contacting layout artists to ask if they'd give their blessing to their layouts being used in the creation of Arcade Sim machines, I hope that satisfies everyone's concerns?  

Edited May 5, 2021 by johnparker007

[johnparker007]

@Reg
"...if it autogenerates the assets based on machines being plugged into it, you'll likely get 100's of layouts done very quickly by the community.  Then for working with MAME, you have so much already done."

Unfortunately there's still a lot of manual work involved, and lots of layouts currently don't work for a variety of reasons.  The initial layout extraction process is also super flakey and can do bad things (like literally start selecting files on the desktop and moving them around / deleting them!  Plus a recent memory leak, now fixed, meant it irreversibly corrupted a Perforce server running on my machine - it's pretty dangerous!).  And a strong knowledge of Unity game engine and the internals of the simulator are required - so for the medium term at least, I have to make the 3d machines using the layouts myself as a manual process, and there's just no way around that, it's a big technical obstacle (much I'd love it to be a nice magic one-click solution that spits out the 3d machines!).

@slasher
"The other reason I believe it's being done is because it's easier to focus on the same part for both MFME and MAME, rather than do it for MFME and have to re visit later. At present, the MAME side is playing catch up to what's already been implemented for MFME. "

This is mainly true, I am having to reimplement stuff that looks the same in the videos (as the previous MFME machines) but is radically different under the hood.  Once I have MAME scraping/input roughly on a par with MFME scraping/input, I could then think about how I might best approach the overhaul to generate the 'hybrid' machines I mentioned earlier.  So then you'd have a machine like Indiana Jones, and you could bring up the options menu while it's running, and switch emulators.  The machine would reboot, but now it would be running on the other emulator (whilst preserving machine RAM).

I think with the videos I put up make things look simpler than they are  Bear in mind these are cherry picked recordings to show things working, rather than a lot of the time when things go horribly wrong   ...so I can see why it would be a logical jump to assume you can pop raw MFME layouts in and get functioning 3d machines out... but I think to satisfy all involved, particularly @Reg, I will move up the 'hybrid machine ' generation work to earlier than planned. 

This will take a lot of work, but then the machines can be played using either emulator (providing MFME is installed).  I'll keep on fixing MAME scraping/input issues for now, until it's vaguely stable, and then start thinking about how the hybrid machines can work.

Edited May 5, 2021 by johnparker007

[Zippy]

4 hours ago, slasher said:

Yeah please don't do this people. It's good to have sensible discussion and I feel some good points have been raised here too.

 

Wouldn't do that anyway as I do respect peoples opinion even if I don't like it (although some deserve a turd or two including me, couldn't help but initiate @johnparker007), besides this is all way off the time for anyone getting their knickers in a knot as this project looks like it still has some way to go so let progression take place in a nice calm manner. *my personal thoughts*

Sorry if I threw out some awkward questions, suppose I got a bit overexcited with it and might of overstepped the mark on a couple of posts, nothing has changed in respecting Chris's wishes so am making that crystal clear, just want to see our little place go from strength to strength as there have been some good positive changes this year.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Big J
Missed a word

[Pook]

It's clear everyone want's to keep Chris's legacy intact and it's important for us to uphold what we know his wishes would be. But if we continue on our current trajectory then where are we going? Yes we'll all be here for years doing the odd new machine or updating when source material becomes available, we might even get a few hundred more members.

On the other hand look at the potential this project can do bringing our hobby to a whole new audience. My other hobby other than FME is retro gaming and I'm sure the same can be said of a lot of people here, I've been heavily into MAME and other emulators for over two decades now ever since I discovered Nesticle.

Instead of growing our numbers by a couple of hundred over the next 5yrs imagine a couple hundred thousand instead, although I'm not sure Reg would like policing that influx.

I would personally 100% prefer MFME used as would most here, it's an amazing peice of software and ahead of MAME in terms of FME by a country mile, but I'm open to all suggestions.

@johnparker007 forgive me for not fully understanding the technical side of your work but is there a way for FME designers to convert their work themselves? For me as a designer converting my own work into 3D running via MFME would be the utopic solution and I think a lot of designers would be onboard also.

Then in the arcade there's a separate room with a sign like 'OVER 18's ONLY'. It directs you to DIF and won't let you enter that room to access the machines unless you have MFME installed. Imaging the same scenario with VP.

I know those last two sentences are a bit of a pipe dream but there is potential here, I want to help, I want to see FME grow. I don't want FME to peter out, but on the other hand I don't want to feel that my work and FME in general is just being 'bolted on' to another project.

Hope that makes sense.

[Reg]

3 minutes ago, Pook said:

Instead of growing our numbers by a couple of hundred over the next 5yrs imagine a couple hundred thousand instead, although I'm not sure Reg would like policing that influx.

No !

That would mean we would be going down the moderator route in the future who would be proper mods, unlike other sites.  That being said, areas such as yours @Pook would remain 100% under your control as it is now and mods, would not touch DX'Cellent as that's your baby.

[Geddy]

11 minutes ago, Reg said:

That would mean we would be going down the moderator route in the future who would be proper mods.

I'll be a mod, I've an old mod badge I don't use anymore  

[Pook]

10 minutes ago, Geddy said:

I'll be a mod, I've an old mod badge I don't use anymore  

Dust off the old crown.

[Tommy c]

12 minutes ago, Geddy said:

I'll be a mod, I've an old mod badge I don't use anymore  

Thought we didn't transfer shit from other sites ( Purple Mod Badge) to here  Leave that shitty mod badge were it belongs

Edited May 5, 2021 by Tommy c

[Tommy c]

7 hours ago, serene02 said:

Ha ha, I’m sure you’ll only need permission from the main DX releasers to be fair.  

Vectra, Pook, possibly Dad.

J

Sorry are the hundreds of layouts I've provided over these couple of years not enough and for me to have some kind of life! Does that demote me to part time designer?....................... Lol

[Zippy]

7 minutes ago, Tommy c said:

Sorry are the hundreds of layouts I've provided over these couple of years not enough and for me to have some kind of life! Does that demote me to part time designer?....................... Lol

Could always become full time over on FE

I've only just made my way into the designing aspect but will do whatever is necessary to keep this site active as long as it doesn't break any rules/T's and C's. Anyway have several WIPs up my sleeve including some unemulated stuff with the partner in crime lol so I'll just crack on.

[slasher]

1 hour ago, Pook said:

@johnparker007 forgive me for not fully understanding the technical side of your work but is there a way for FME designers to convert their work themselves?

Now that is a good suggestion and could solve a fair few "problems?"

[serene02]

51 minutes ago, Tommy c said:

Sorry are the hundreds of layouts I've provided over these couple of years not enough and for me to have some kind of life! Does that demote me to part time designer?....................... Lol

I only mentioned those DX’ers as those seem to have produced and released to most layouts, apologies if I missed you out, I was just making a point that just those designers would produce some big online arcades.

It’s not a job!

J

Edited May 5, 2021 by serene02

[slasher]

Yeah, where's my mention, I've released three whole classics!!

[serene02]

...and did you get your medal of honour?

J

[serene02]

Actually the only layout creator to ask is SlotsRUs, he has created 1000’s

J

[serene02]

... though he might charge you

J

[serene02]

Serious question regarding the Arcade Sim aimed at JP.

Will it be non smoking bud?  How many people per machine and do I need to call an attendant to witness my £3 payout?

J

[Zippy]

@johnparker007 don't let him in or he will empty all your machines, you can let me in I'm honest

[serene02]

Watch Big J, he'll keep changing notes just to make out he's spending loads of money.  Also watch those plugs, he can't help himself, he's fast.   In fact, better still, switch the machines off when he rolls up!!

 

J

[Zippy]

14 minutes ago, serene02 said:

Watch Big J, he'll keep changing notes just to make out he's spending loads of money.  Also watch those plugs, he can't help himself, he's fast.   In fact, better still, switch the machines off when he rolls up!!

 

J

Hahahaha bastard but you got me and you are dead right, Mr JP will be broke when I finished.

Could you imagine us two teaming up in the good old days emptying five Surprizes in a row, take about 3 hours and walk away with 500 quid plus, would of murdered those Bingo Halls even more as they were peppered all about the place with them both Top Rank and Gala, which brings me to a question,

Would it be possible to play two or even three machines on the same screen on your simulator @johnparker007, you may not of got that far but you know I can't help but give you the third degree lol?

[vectra666]

2 hours ago, Tommy c said:

Sorry are the hundreds of layouts I've provided over these couple of years not enough and for me to have some kind of life! Does that demote me to part time designer?....................... Lol

Nah yours are too good they only want shitty layouts from me lol

 v-tech dxs ehh @Pook

youll be producing layouts long after I hang my tools up . I learnt a lot from the likes of you