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Payout workaround


Road Hog Mad
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Hello, it's me again!

 

I'm after a workaround.

 

I have spoken to Wizard about my issue and at the moment he has no plans to implement a suggestion I had, no surprise as its a funny suggestion lol.

 

My dilemma ...

 

As you all know I have my own home built fruit machine, I have a £1 hopper and 20p hopper, my reasoning for a 20p hopper is that I play the 90's token games and this seemed more logical to have a 20p hopper for 20p (token) payouts, plus my coin mech is more happier accepting 20p's rather than 10p's (won't accept any new ones).

 

Anyway, all of my games pay £1 and 20p coins, so this limits the games I have, I like the odd old retro ones , for e.g. Reel Crazy, this pays out in 10p's.

I've looked in the layout in edit mode (reel crazy) to see if I can fool the emulator/game in to thinking that the 10p tube is empty and for it to pay a single 20p coin, but I can't find any tick boxes and wouldn't know how to add this. In other words a £1 win would pay out x5 20ps rather than x10 10ps.

I suggested to Wizard that in the value section a 0.5 be added rather than a 1, so a x2 10p win would be a 20p coin rather than 40p, but as mentioned there are no plans to implement this.

 

So i'm after a clever work around if anyone has one.

 

 

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  • 4 months later...

Hiya, ran across this (and a previous post asking if someone could do you a build- which you clearly don't need anymore hehe). Have you also solved this problem

If not, I have "a" solution, although I'm not really clever enough for a full how-to and implementation. But the idea is straightforward enough.

some sort of "adder" like a data AND gate (probably using some sort of 4xxx style chip. You could set that so that it only throws an output once it has an "input of 2". Not sure if I've made that make sense, but in principal it requires TWO input pulses before it ouputs ONE, with a bypass switch,  you could have this do a 10p to 20p conversion

This will run into an issue if you have any ODD size prizes (10p, 50p £1.50 etc) which I know those old machines do. You'd end up with that HALF state being "stored". You could either just live with that and the effect it would have - sometimes an odd prize would have 10p added, sometimes it would lose 10p. Or you could add a "clear" function to this 'adder/buffer' circuit/chip that would reset the count

Sorry I can't be of much help in the full technicals of how to actually build this, but hopefully it's planted a seed for you

Personally, I'm hoping to build an alternative solution to the mixed-age machines problem. I plan on having the usual £1 and 20p hoppers, (for modern-ish machines) and to go old-school with 10p and 2p solenoid tubes for my lovely 80s and early 90s games (probably will not bother with 5p but maybe...) I know the usual problem with payout tubes is the 50V issue, but I might try and find a way of "constructing" my own payout system for this. I've not investigated yet how I'd get the 2 differing sytems to interface through the ipac, but probably just with switching. I'd also probably end up with a second coin mech that would feed/stock those tubes (as well as adding the 2p accept).

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1 hour ago, seb said:

Hiya, ran across this (and a previous post asking if someone could do you a build- which you clearly don't need anymore hehe). Have you also solved this problem

If not, I have "a" solution, although I'm not really clever enough for a full how-to and implementation. But the idea is straightforward enough.

some sort of "adder" like a data AND gate (probably using some sort of 4xxx style chip. You could set that so that it only throws an output once it has an "input of 2". Not sure if I've made that make sense, but in principal it requires TWO input pulses before it ouputs ONE, with a bypass switch,  you could have this do a 10p to 20p conversion

This will run into an issue if you have any ODD size prizes (10p, 50p £1.50 etc) which I know those old machines do. You'd end up with that HALF state being "stored". You could either just live with that and the effect it would have - sometimes an odd prize would have 10p added, sometimes it would lose 10p. Or you could add a "clear" function to this 'adder/buffer' circuit/chip that would reset the count

Sorry I can't be of much help in the full technicals of how to actually build this, but hopefully it's planted a seed for you

Personally, I'm hoping to build an alternative solution to the mixed-age machines problem. I plan on having the usual £1 and 20p hoppers, (for modern-ish machines) and to go old-school with 10p and 2p solenoid tubes for my lovely 80s and early 90s games (probably will not bother with 5p but maybe...) I know the usual problem with payout tubes is the 50V issue, but I might try and find a way of "constructing" my own payout system for this. I've not investigated yet how I'd get the 2 differing sytems to interface through the ipac, but probably just with switching. I'd also probably end up with a second coin mech that would feed/stock those tubes (as well as adding the 2p accept).

That kind of reminds me of a device that came out in the early 90's. It converted the token pulses to pounds. Not sure if it paid the remainders of a 4.80 jackpot in to 20ps or not though? I do remember it being quite slow as it waited for 5 tokens to pulse, before it did anything.

As for your 50v solenoid payout idea, that would only require a 5v relay connected to the  Pacdrive, and then you can shove one of the 50v +/- wires through it to make the circuit.

Edited by Amusements
Keyboardalitus

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10 minutes ago, Amusements said:

As for your 50v solenoid payout idea, that would only require a 5v relay connected to the  Pacdrive, and then you can shove one of the 50v +/- wires through it to make the circuit.

that's exactly what I thought, just I've seen everyone kinda making the sign of the cross when ppl mention using tubes and saying "beware the 50V" lol. I guess mostly just cos unless you've got the appropriate psu, 50v isn't that easy to come by. But yeah, I was kinda thinking about substituting 12v/24v solenoids in buth, hey if donor parts end up here with 50v, so be it.

ps. sorry, this wasn't intended as a thread hijack. Hopefully my info helps others, even if OP has moved past this by now

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oh and on the subject of "rounding up".... well, I guess in these modern times, we could program something like an arduino to monitor the payouts, round up appropriately, then pulse the outputs. Yeah, I realise this would add delay (and is basically the same as the old "wait for the emu to finish counting, then act" method, but it would solve a problem. Also, that old method could probably still be used, including the rounding up, using some script etc

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  • 4 weeks later...

Yeah still have the issue, was hoping to get the older machines on my home build, I like the system 80 ones, like Reel Crazy, I've loaded that up and was hoping to make it think the 10p hopper was empty so it would use the 20p one instead, I can't figure it out though. 

I've seen the token machines converted to pay £1's for 5 pulses of a token before  (saw a you tube video somewhere, think it was a MayGay).

For me I don't think its a hardware issue, more a software issue, it's as if the emulator needs modifying in someway. Or an add on to it. In the Pac Drive section it says Value, and in that I put 1, if I had a 10p hopper i'd put 2. I can't put 0.5 lol.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

From a recent experiment, it looks like you can run up to 4 hoppers, so long as you are using a 2nd PacDrive (ID#2) and are only setting up older games that use the Triacs as hopper payouts. 

I cant confirm this 100% yet as my extra hoppers have mysteriously not arrived (been waiting a month so far), but when I tested using a lamp and pressing a [ key in place of a 3rd hopper, things seemed to work. 

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On 19/07/2021 at 01:57, Amusements said:

From a recent experiment, it looks like you can run up to 4 hoppers, so long as you are using a 2nd PacDrive (ID#2) and are only setting up older games that use the Triacs as hopper payouts. 

I cant confirm this 100% yet as my extra hoppers have mysteriously not arrived (been waiting a month so far), but when I tested using a lamp and pressing a [ key in place of a 3rd hopper, things seemed to work. 

Interesting, double the cost but interesting, so we could could have 20p token, 20p, £1 and 10p payouts.

Let me know how you go on with this and what the process is that you are going to use, wire diagrams are helpful for retards like me.

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Unfortunately my last experiment did not work, using Triac->hopper1 & Triac->hopper2 on Pacdrive 1 and Triac-> hopper1  on Pacdrive #2 at the same time. Only one or the other works.

However that still leaves the Triac output, which should be able to power a relay, and that could be used by an arduino, to convert it in to spinning the hopper and counting a coin through the opto. (Experiment coming soon)

Unexpected find!
I have just started experimenting with my JY-142 coin changer board, and found out something that may interest you!
You can set it up to take X amount of pulses/switches (Think relay from the token triac output) and pay X amount of coins, and have it keep the balance in memory (shows on a display).

In other words you could theoretically set up tokens to payout via triac (#) in Pacdrive settings, and connect the output to a relay, then connect the relay to the pulse/switch input on this board. The board would then wait for 5 token pulses, and payout a pound. For 4.80 it would pay out  pound and leave balance for the next payout. I may try this properly later.

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@davep180 @Road Hog Mad

Experiment done!

So I set up everything as mentioned above, and played JPM SYS5 Fireball, (because it is generous on tokens) and needless to say, it took me 52 bleeding squid to get a 4.80 jackpot! + 1 repeat.

Anyway it all works!

I have it set up so that it clocks up the token payouts, and you press a button to collect the pounds. It can be changed to pay out instantly in the settings.

There is provision for 2 hoppers, so you can set up 2 different Triac payouts in MFME to = 2 different coins.

So now we know that using 4 hoppers without an arduino is possible, and converting tokens to Pounds (including memorizing balance) is also possible.

I have an arduino Uno in the post for my next experiment.

 

Edited by Amusements
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If you wanted tokens that bad you should of done a Stop and Match on Galaxy then it would of only been around a fiver in.

 

Zippy🤐

Zippy🤐 from Rainbosays "Still waiting on an apology but I won't hold my breath 😗"

 

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41 minutes ago, Road Hog Mad said:

Interesting experiment, I just thought it would be good to have token pay-outs too as its more authentic.

I agree. This was just a sidetrack experiment for turning tokens payouts in to cash. Unfortunately my new ID#2 Pacdrive now seems to be voltageless (still shows up as Pacdrive #2) which means  I will continue on my original quest, IE: Notes to credit (works already with Arduino Leonardo), and notes for change which should work with this JY-142 board.

Treat every day like your last, because one day it will be!

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Always good reading innovating ways people go about things! :)

My next stage... My home build is under the stairs, computer in the kitchen, wife wants it under the stairs, so under the stairs will now become a computer room.

Which means my home build which is in an old quiz machine will have to be stripped out and put in a home made cabinet, i'm not parting with it. :D

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