Causing a bit of a stir.

[Cavey]

That's a compelling argument, @stevedude2, but there again (in theory at least) - genuinely random games cannot (again in theory) be susceptible to obscure, coded-in "emptiers" that mean only a tiny minority of players "in the know" get to take almost all the value out of said game(s), with the uninformed paying a disproportionate price that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the advertised %RTP on the sticker next to the coin slot (or more likely note acceptor these days I guess). Sound familiar?

On the other hand, is there even such a thing as a "good" fruit machine, whether compensated or random? Even if it plays by the rules in every way, it's still going to rob you. With echoes of WarGames (yeah I'm THAT old), perhaps the only winning move is not to play (with actual money that is, emulation is a different matter).

I'd be pretty confident that every member here, myself included, welcomes any expert insight provided by @Projectgilda or indeed any other coder. If people are angry at the "industry" corporates for what happened to them, that doesn't extend to individuals.

FWIW and speaking for myself, whilst I do feel anger at fruit machine companies, it's overwhelmingly the case that the person I blame is myself for my gambling years. (Interestingly, whilst it was an £800 beating at the monstrous hands of BFM's £1000JP Casino Grandslam and an ultimatum from the lady I love that jolted me off the machines, it was the Allen Carr method that got me off the cigs almost 10 years ago to the day, with not one puff since). Bent or otherwise, no-one was forcing me to shovel bag after bag of pound coins into the bloody things besides myself.

[Chopaholic]

7 hours ago, stevedude2 said:

 

This is what gap testing is for on random games.  It's a count of the number of losing spins before a winning one.  For example, a run of 6 losing spins should be less frequent than a run of 5 losing spins but more frequent than a run of 7 losing spins.

You can work out the average expected gaps and how often they will occur by using the overall hit rate of the game.  The gap test results from a sample of random spins have to fall within this range or something is amiss and the game will fail at the Test House.  Obviously the shorter the sample of spins the more it can deviate.

For me random games, especially Cat C, are really toxic.  The reason people lose money in them so quickly is because of the lack of holds, nudges and features to break up the rhythm of the game, and the resulting short minimum game time.  Plus the fact that some of the RTP% options, especially in pubs and service stations, are fucking dire.

Games for zombies basically, with no break in play until some 1 in 100-150 spin event (like free spins) occurs, which can often be over in less than a minute.  Compare this experience to a lapper board on a £15 jackpot AWP like Psycho Cash Beast that comes in once every few quid and can involve a few laps and then some thinking time while you try and set the reels up for Nearest Win or whatever.

At least with compensated games you can meticulously curate a specific experience for the player to ensure they get a bit of interaction for their money.  On random games you're extremely limited in what you can do other than tweaking the maths to improve the hit rate of the bonus, at the expense of the average value of the bonus itself, or the quality of the base game.

Your argument about compensated games holds true when the machines themselves work properly (i.e. not doable), and at nice 'emulator percentages' of 82-86% (which manufacturers always recommended but operators basically never implemented, PCP famously recommended 90% for Double Blue Chip at 20p/£4.80p, how many seaside arcades do you think set them at 90%?).

I was thinking about this last night and for my money one of the first major problems the compensated fruit machine world had was the ACE Hidden Treasures machines. For starters these were programmed to save for insane streaks, £50-£60 on a £4.80p jackpot, which is mental, but then of course were vulnerable to all sorts of nonsense like the free lines wins, spot the ball emptiers and so on - and when played 'properly' it was possible to leave them completely smashed. Some of my absolute worst ever drubbings were on Hidden Treasures machines. (And then we can chuck 76% pub percentages into the mix.)

Compare and contrast with, let's say, Manhattan Skylines, also a 20p/£4.80p proposition, but one of the gentlest machines you can imagine.

-----

As for the randoms I'm done with them in a land-based context, the RTP alone is appalling and then there's the fact you need to play top stakes to even get the derisory 'best' RTP. Also the win tables are shit too, with a 100x top prize in the UK and a 250x top prize on the IOM.

Online random games are fine, I also place more faith in the testing regime in that space. Moreover I have my own stats over many years to give me confidence that they return what they say they do. Add in solid 96%+ RTPs, along with the freedom to play tiddly stakes like 20p, and there are some decent games out there. In many cases with fun features that can play out to a decently entertaining degree as well.

-----

Back to compensated fruit machines, if you look at a game like Hagar, which is one of AW's, stick it on 84% and play it in the emulator like a 'normal person' (not that I'm aware of there being anything on Hagar anyway), and it is indeed a great game. It's fun to play, plenty going on, a reasonable level of player interaction and awareness involved, and you can get a moderately extended play session out of it without losing or winning too much.

I think there was a world where the AWP market could have been far better regulated, because for every guy who was just trying to make fun games that basically played fair (such as AW), there were others who were determined to push the envelope in every regard, up to and beyond the limits of what was allowed, and the penalties appear to never have been anything beyond a slap on the wrist. (And that's before you even get into the emptiers, free wins, manipulators, tells (attract mode, numbering, whatever) and all the rest of it.)

You mention Psycho Cash Beast there too, I recommend you set it to 76%, get it properly settled down with a combination of autoplay and manual play (at least £1000 in), and then completely demolish it with the manipulator. Reset your stats and start a fresh session as the 'casual punter' and see how edifying you find the experience to be  

Random is the least worst option IMO, at least if done properly, as it's the only way to do it that's completely fair.

[slotsmagic]

48 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

Your argument about compensated games holds true when the machines themselves work properly (i.e. not doable), and at nice 'emulator percentages' of 82-86% (which manufacturers always recommended but operators basically never implemented, PCP famously recommended 90% for Double Blue Chip at 20p/£4.80p, how many seaside arcades do you think set them at 90%?).

I was thinking about this last night and for my money one of the first major problems the compensated fruit machine world had was the ACE Hidden Treasures machines. For starters these were programmed to save for insane streaks, £50-£60 on a £4.80p jackpot, which is mental, but then of course were vulnerable to all sorts of nonsense like the free lines wins, spot the ball emptiers and so on - and when played 'properly' it was possible to leave them completely smashed. Some of my absolute worst ever drubbings were on Hidden Treasures machines. (And then we can chuck 76% pub percentages into the mix.)

Compare and contrast with, let's say, Manhattan Skylines, also a 20p/£4.80p proposition, but one of the gentlest machines you can imagine.

-----

As for the randoms I'm done with them in a land-based context, the RTP alone is appalling and then there's the fact you need to play top stakes to even get the derisory 'best' RTP. Also the win tables are shit too, with a 100x top prize in the UK and a 250x top prize on the IOM.

Online random games are fine, I also place more faith in the testing regime in that space. Moreover I have my own stats over many years to give me confidence that they return what they say they do. Add in solid 96%+ RTPs, along with the freedom to play tiddly stakes like 20p, and there are some decent games out there. In many cases with fun features that can play out to a decently entertaining degree as well.

-----

Back to compensated fruit machines, if you look at a game like Hagar, which is one of AW's, stick it on 84% and play it in the emulator like a 'normal person' (not that I'm aware of there being anything on Hagar anyway), and it is indeed a great game. It's fun to play, plenty going on, a reasonable level of player interaction and awareness involved, and you can get a moderately extended play session out of it without losing or winning too much.

I think there was a world where the AWP market could have been far better regulated, because for every guy who was just trying to make fun games that basically played fair (such as AW), there were others who were determined to push the envelope in every regard, up to and beyond the limits of what was allowed, and the penalties appear to never have been anything beyond a slap on the wrist. (And that's before you even get into the emptiers, free wins, manipulators, tells (attract mode, numbering, whatever) and all the rest of it.)

You mention Psycho Cash Beast there too, I recommend you set it to 76%, get it properly settled down with a combination of autoplay and manual play (at least £1000 in), and then completely demolish it with the manipulator. Reset your stats and start a fresh session as the 'casual punter' and see how edifying you find the experience to be  

Random is the least worst option IMO, at least if done properly, as it's the only way to do it that's completely fair.

All good points.

I reckon it is possible to have good streaks and still maintain a decent base game. The issue is the way it is saved for and the RTP. For example the Fair Games 10p/£5 and 20p/£10 jackpot machines which pay insane streaks - but they typically have high base percentage (the ones I played were always 88% plus, with several in the 90s). The streak is saved for over a long period of time, and so the base game feels very much like 88% Electrocoin or similar. They are lo-techs so a lumpy game anyway, but they play 'well' for lo-techs, to the point you don't think of the streak as being paid for in the short term.

Compare that to Concept where I've got plenty of experience of them playing a 'reasonable' game, then literally dying on their arse for £350 of coins, before dumping a £300-ish streak. Depending on machine it's like a switch flips and says 'bugger, I've got a pay a £300 run in the next 1000 credits - I'd better pay fuck all to build up a pot to pay from!!'.

Not playing pub randoms - I wish everyone would stop playing them. In your case the £500s have no place being in a pub anyway, but the £100 versions are nerfed too and you can lose proper 'casino' money in quick order, and good luck getting paid out on a malfunction.

I never got the £20 back that Wetherspoons promised me years ago for a notey malfunction so good luck if you have a machine die with a £400 bank on the digitals. 

I'm sure it's been covered before, and I know AW is an advocate, but aside from the Ace machines and their streaks, it is the jackpot levels that destroyed the AWP market for me. I've said many times but if pubs had sensible 5p-20p machines and jackpots of £5-£10 I wouldn't have bothered quitting. With the current NLW of £12.60 or whatever it is, you'd class 5p-20p as almost an acceptable spend for some 'fun', assuming the machines managed to actually offer that - which they should be able to.

I mean actual fun, not just dopamine stimulating teases and lightshows which they use now, where the only excitement is hoping the Roman soldier chap sticks his head out of a bush and plays a bugle, or the fat fairy that looks like Peter Griffin floats across the screen and doesn't 'pop'.

That isn't fun. That's bullshit.

Edited August 5 by slotsmagic

[Cavey]

I think it's beyond naïve to imagine that online casinos aren't shady to at least some degree, or to take advertised %RTP at face value. (It's a known fact that the developers of these games produce different versions with lower %RTP that would be indistinguishable to the player, with the usual "you'd have to play gazillions of credits to work out RTP/pay cycles" or whatever).

People are welcome to continue to place whatever faith in them or the "industry" as they see fit, of course. Me? I'll keep my money and spend it on proper, worthwhile things like cars and motorbikes.

[Boulderdash]

30 minutes ago, slotsmagic said:

All good points.

I reckon it is possible to have good streaks and still maintain a decent base game. The issue is the way it is saved for and the RTP. For example the Fair Games 10p/£5 and 20p/£10 jackpot machines which pay insane streaks - but they typically have high base percentage (the ones I played were always 88% plus, with several in the 90s). The streak is saved for over a long period of time, and so the base game feels very much like 88% Electrocoin or similar. They are lo-techs so a lumpy game anyway, but they play 'well' for lo-techs, to the point you don't think of the streak as being paid for in the short term.

Compare that to Concept where I've got plenty of experience of them playing a 'reasonable' game, then literally dying on their arse for £350 of coins, before dumping a £300-ish streak. Depending on machine it's like a switch flips and says 'bugger, I've got a pay a £300 run in the next 1000 credits - I'd better pay fuck all to build up a pot to pay from!!'.

Not playing pub randoms - I wish everyone would stop playing them. In your case the £500s have no place being in a pub anyway, but the £100 versions are nerfed too and you can lose proper 'casino' money in quick order, and good luck getting paid out on a malfunction.

I never got the £20 back that Wetherspoons promised me years ago for a notey malfunction so good luck if you have a machine die with a £400 bank on the digitals. 

I'm sure it's been covered before, and I know AW is an advocate, but aside from the Ace machines and their streaks, it is the jackpot levels that destroyed the AWP market for me. I've said many times but if pubs had sensible 5p-20p machines and jackpots of £5-£10 I wouldn't have bothered quitting. With the current NLW of £12.60 or whatever it is, you'd class 5p-20p as almost an acceptable spend for some 'fun', assuming the machines managed to actually offer that - which they should be able to.

I mean actual fun, not just dopamine stimulating teases and lightshows which they use now, where the only excitement is hoping the Roman soldier chap sticks his head out of a bush and plays a bugle, or the fat fairy that looks like Peter Griffin floats across the screen and doesn't 'pop'.

That isn't fun. That's bullshit.

Pubs these days unfortunately aren't going to waste a corner of the bar with a machine that makes almost no money and needs regular maintenance. Fortunately you can play games like this in the emulator. 

[hilolottery]

The £100 randoms in pubs these days will empty your pockets more than any compensated fruit in a bad mood ever could. Nobody that plays them actually looks like they are enjoying themselves, usually stood in a zombie-like state. And let's not kid ourselves, someone.. somewhere.. will no doubt have something on a few of them, quietly getting on with it, filling their boots and moving on. The gambling commission don't know anything about the market they are tasked with regulating, so nothing has changed there either, leaving all scenarios just as likely as they ever were, online and land based.

When I discovered fruit machines the highest stake was 10p, and I didn't find them all that interesting. I played video games and pinball more, along with the odd fruit. It was 20p play that changed things completely, I found the games suddenly became much more lively and Project came along with all their 20p machines - addictive as hell, I no doubt spent a fortune on them, but that was personal choice and the machines were fun on the whole. Arcades were busy so everything got a lot of throughput, and you would catch plenty of things at the right time too lending a little bit of balance to things.

The £6 token jackpots came along and it will have been at this point I first played some of the designs by @Projectgilda - Indiana Jones was brilliant, you could even push it if you wanted and it was nice when you got £18 from the top. Try that on a £10 cash program and see how it goes. I remember arcades were still busy going into the £8/10 and 15 jackpot periods, but at £25 it was never quite the same. The dead periods were far more noticeable on the £25 jackpot upgrades and things only got worse from here. Less and less punters were willing to play through these dead periods, they liked the fun aspect of things which was getting harder and harder to cater for whilst incorporating the higher jackpots. @Projectgilda did a great job with his designs, they offered plenty at face value to accommodate casual play, yet offering something for those who liked to try and think outside the box, developing their own skills and strategies as they invested their own time and money in playing the games. Welcome to the forum.

[Cavey]

16 minutes ago, hilolottery said:

Nobody that plays them actually looks like they are enjoying themselves, usually stood in a zombie-like state.

That listless, trademark "thousand yard stare" of the hapless fruit machine addict (I was one of them), even as his mates are enjoying themselves in the pub - doing stuff you're supposed to do in a pub, like drinking, socialising, talking aimable bollocks, checking out the local talent or whatever. 

I always shudder when I walk (quickly) past those dingy "gaming" rooms at motorway service stations with umpteen (largely) unplayed £500 randoms in them - but with the odd one or two disheveled figures slumped in front of one of the screens. A stark reminder, as if any were needed, of how things could've ended up. Poor bastards. 

[Hamsun]

On 03/08/2025 at 15:36, thealteredemu said:

Maybe request a larger graphic revamp with better hi res reels.

I've been playing with the other DX of Cashbuster and I've finally managed to start hitting the JP on SnS fairly consistently. I've had to adapt my old method. Rather than looking for the marker on the right edge of the reel I've had to time it from the red bars. I managed to hit 5 out of 6 (the last one gave four repeats).
I tried letting it time out a few times but it didn't always land on the symbol below the win line. It definitely does it sometimes. It wasn't something I did very often in the wild so it could be my memory is playing tricks.

So it does appear to be true skill. [I was almost shocked to find I could hit SnS by timing, especially after all these years].

This has also made me question the reliability of numbering on these. After the  four JP repeats it still kept throwing in 12s and 1s and appeared fairly lively with bonus numbers and let-em-spins but kept killing me within one or two moves on the board. It took £30+ to get to a win over £3. It wouldn't let me get near SnS again for ages.  It then gave me JP plus a repeat from 2 reel blasts (which I took because it was either that or gamble and lose on 4 for nth time)

Make of that what you will.

I'm just glad I'm not still playing in the wild.

 

[slotsmagic]

2 hours ago, Cavey said:

That listless, trademark "thousand yard stare" of the hapless fruit machine addict (I was one of them), even as his mates are enjoying themselves in the pub - doing stuff you're supposed to do in a pub, like drinking, socialising, talking aimable bollocks, checking out the local talent or whatever. 

I always shudder when I walk (quickly) past those dingy "gaming" rooms at motorway service stations with umpteen (largely) unplayed £500 randoms in them - but with the odd one or two disheveled figures slumped in front of one of the screens. A stark reminder, as if any were needed, of how things could've ended up. Poor bastards. 

Went to a quiet pub in Boston last week, there was on Innov8 cabinet  (which are bloody awful from experience). One lifeless figure was playing it, like a robot. His mate at the bar was going to play but announced he was '1 hour from being declared bankrupt', he was genuinely going to be declared bankrupt that day.

I know it's dragging things off topic but machines these days have absolutely zero place in the world for the normal working man, certainly not anyone on minimum wage or benefits. £1 a spin is utter bullshit. I remember when video games went up to £1 play and I found that pretty offensive, but at least that bought you a few minutes of action. Not 2 seconds.

I remember when I used to gamble on the Electrocoins in Boston. There was me (still pretty solvent, still classing it as disposable income), one frantic taxi driver who would race between jobs, bang £20 into a Concept and race off, and the rest of them were all on benefits.

Not saying that is the case everywhere, but that's what I saw. Still amazes me how addiction works. I can see why people on benefits might play them, I can see why people with no money play them. But why people who can afford to play them play them doesn't make sense.

You aren't going to make money, don't need the money, and don't need the added stress and frustration in your life.

Edited August 5 by slotsmagic

[Chopaholic]

14 minutes ago, Hamsun said:

I've been playing with the other DX of Cashbuster and I've finally managed to start hitting the JP on SnS fairly consistently. I've had to adapt my old method. Rather than looking for the marker on the right edge of the reel I've had to time it from the red bars. I managed to hit 5 out of 6 (the last one gave four repeats).
I tried letting it time out a few times but it didn't always land on the symbol below the win line. It definitely does it sometimes. It wasn't something I did very often in the wild so it could be my memory is playing tricks.

So it does appear to be true skill. [I was almost shocked to find I could hit SnS by timing, especially after all these years].

This has also made me question the reliability of numbering on these. After the  four JP repeats it still kept throwing in 12s and 1s and appeared fairly lively with bonus numbers and let-em-spins but kept killing me within one or two moves on the board. It took £30+ to get to a win over £3. It wouldn't let me get near SnS again for ages.  It then gave me JP plus a repeat from 2 reel blasts (which I took because it was either that or gamble and lose on 4 for nth time)

Make of that what you will.

I'm just glad I'm not still playing in the wild.

 

FYI there's a thread about Cash Buster as I did a video for it, some more conversation in there about the machine  

I guess you know that already because you've posted to it!

 

 

[Cavey]

2 minutes ago, slotsmagic said:

But why people who can afford to play them play them doesn't make sense.

This is a good question. I remember pumping £60 at a time into machines where the most you could win was £2.40 (in actual cash) plus a repeat chance. How does that make any sense whatsoever?

Even then, I was on half decent money (ish); winning a tenner or twenty quid on AWPs wasn't going to make any difference either way.

There's no logic to compulsive gambling - whichever way you slice it, applying any sort of common sense or logic: it's a mug's game, stop doing it. The psychology of it all is counter-intuitive; it's a perverse, destructive, "press the fuck it switch" compulsion just for its own sake, once you're "in the pit".

I suppose the best analogy is smoking addiction - even when you're wheezing like a squeeze box, coughing your guts up with asthma, emphysema or even worse and there can be NO illusion of "enjoying" a cigarette that actually does nothing for you at all - the addict still sparks up first thing out of bed notwithstanding.

I have nothing but sympathy in both cases because I've been there. In both cases.

[slotsmagic]

18 minutes ago, Cavey said:

This is a good question. I remember pumping £60 at a time into machines where the most you could win was £2.40 (in actual cash) plus a repeat chance. How does that make any sense whatsoever?

Even then, I was on half decent money (ish); winning a tenner or twenty quid on AWPs wasn't going to make any difference either way.

There's no logic to compulsive gambling - whichever way you slice it, applying any sort of common sense or logic: it's a mug's game, stop doing it. The psychology of it all is counter-intuitive; it's a perverse, destructive, "press the fuck it switch" compulsion just for its own sake, once you're "in the pit".

I suppose the best analogy is smoking addiction - even when you're wheezing like a squeeze box, coughing your guts up with asthma, emphysema or even worse and there can be NO illusion of "enjoying" a cigarette that actually does nothing for you at all - the addict still sparks up first thing out of bed notwithstanding.

I have nothing but sympathy in both cases because I've been there. In both cases.

 

I've been there with food, alcohol and smoking (well, vaping these days, only for cost reasons). Alcohol was the worst for those around me. Getting in from work, believing alcohol was the only escape. Drinking so much so quickly (cheap ciders by this time) whilst gambling online, and pissing in the empty bottles and cans** because you can't be arsed to leave the room and just need to keep consuming. Waking up still drunk, going to work and believing everyone was a c**t and I was the only one who knew what they were doing. Flying off the handle at trivial matters (things that were a drop in the ocean really but I'd blow things way out of context), ended up leaving and feeling like it was a great move because they were idiots and I was better than them. Reality is they were just about to sack me for gross insubordination and gross misconduct anyway, and looking back they did (at the beginning) actually try and help, but I wasn't receptive at all.

Of course I didn't realise I was addicted to it, same with machines I guess. You believe you are in control, but I can't remember one time I was, with alcohol, gambling, food, or anything else.

 

 

** Yes it sounds disgusting, and it is. I was living like a drug addict, but without the usual drugs, jumping from one fix (alcohol) to another (gambling) to another (food) with no time for genuine pleasure and wholesome activity.

I've still got photos of what my room was like before I got clean, and it's not pretty. But it's positive to see how I turned my life around!!

But it does give me a sympathy, when people on TV with say hoarding issues get comments from the uninformed like 'I wouldn't let my house get like that', 'how can they not see how disgusting that is'... Trust me, you see it every day, you just don't think there's anything wrong with it, and aren't receptive to help from others, you are secretive about it, and ashamed, and lash out if others discover it.

Again, addiction is a bitch.

Edited August 5 by slotsmagic

[Projectgilda]

I think the key word here is 'play'. I could afford to lose but I loved playing them. Amusement with Prize in my era was key. I was a GAMES designer. I wouldn't acknowledge anyone is the current era of being that. They're not games. When JPM got bought by Sega I went to Las Vegas on a business trip to see what the slots were like over there. I remember coming back and stating how bad they were, with no player influence, skill etc... What a fore barer of bad news it would turn out to be. During my time at JPM (official title was International Games Development Manager) I designed games for the overseas markets too. Man were they dull. Clamped by strict regulation. It was a joy to design for the UK market in comparison. But soon the UK followed suit and you end up with, in my opinion, the utter, banal and flaccid random machines you see today. We had our time, and this site acknowledges the heigh day of a very creative and fun time in the AWP marketplace.

[Road Hog Mad]

18 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

I think the key word here is 'play'. I could afford to lose but I loved playing them. Amusement with Prize in my era was key. I was a GAMES designer. I wouldn't acknowledge anyone is the current era of being that. They're not games. When JPM got bought by Sega I went to Las Vegas on a business trip to see what the slots were like over there. I remember coming back and stating how bad they were, with no player influence, skill etc... What a fore barer of bad news it would turn out to be. During my time at JPM (official title was International Games Development Manager) I designed games for the overseas markets too. Man were they dull. Clamped by strict regulation. It was a joy to design for the UK market in comparison. But soon the UK followed suit and you end up with, in my opinion, the utter, banal and flaccid random machines you see today. We had our time, and this site acknowledges the heigh day of a very creative and fun time in the AWP marketplace.

What Barcrest stuff do you have ?

[Projectgilda]

I have a few graphics of test machines and artworks that were never released. Nothing other than a few game specification documents I wrote for said games. You're under strict NDA's, so taking stuff is hard and you could lose your job.

Edited August 5 by Projectgilda

[Boulderdash]

32 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

I think the key word here is 'play'. I could afford to lose but I loved playing them. Amusement with Prize in my era was key. I was a GAMES designer. I wouldn't acknowledge anyone is the current era of being that. They're not games. When JPM got bought by Sega I went to Las Vegas on a business trip to see what the slots were like over there. I remember coming back and stating how bad they were, with no player influence, skill etc... What a fore barer of bad news it would turn out to be. During my time at JPM (official title was International Games Development Manager) I designed games for the overseas markets too. Man were they dull. Clamped by strict regulation. It was a joy to design for the UK market in comparison. But soon the UK followed suit and you end up with, in my opinion, the utter, banal and flaccid random machines you see today. We had our time, and this site acknowledges the heigh day of a very creative and fun time in the AWP marketplace.

I think we're all agreed that once the jackpot went over 40x stake, which would have been £10 all cash era and onwards, they ceased being AWPs and were purely for gambling. 

[slotsmagic]

13 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

I have a few graphics of test machines and artworks that were never released. Nothing other than a few game specification documents I wrote for said games. You're under strict NDA's, so taking stuff is hard and you could lose your job.

If you ever did want to share, just out of nostalgia or to see what we could have had, that would be great, but if not we understand. Thanks for sticking around!

 

2 minutes ago, Boulderdash said:

I think we're all agreed that once the jackpot went over 40x stake, which would have been £10 all cash era and onwards, they ceased being AWPs and were purely for gambling. 

I was pleasantly surprised how well some of the games at Retropolis played at 5p/£4, which is a pretty crazy stake to prize ratio (a smidge worse than 50p/£35), but they were cheap and amusing. I used to avoid the 5p BWBs and MDMs and suchlike as I expected garbage, but with 20 spins for your quid they were actually decent. Can't imagine they are sustainable now with electricity and running costs of older hardware though!!

[Projectgilda]

I've posted images in another thread but to save you time I'll post them here too

[Projectgilda]

This was my Rollercoaster for Barcrest. Failed test. £35 for a trail was hard. It played well, but didn't make the grade unfortunately.

[spa]

Mad that didn't make it, considering at that point Red were cloning cloned clones! 

[Projectgilda]

This was a cracker. The exchanges never disappeared so you could nudge to a win and go back and forth on all 3 Ladders. The coin matrix was great and had lots of skill features. Hidden features a plenty. All graphic boxes were dropped back (3D) so it looked much better in real life than off this image. It passed test but sold very little (this was in the heigh day of DOND), but there's still some out there somewhere. If you see it, play it, it's a hark from the past.

[Chopaholic]

The £35 jackpot was a curious dead zone IMO, somewhere between the last pretence of games being entertainment as well as gambling (i.e. the £25 jackpot) and the 'fuck it we're just gambling then aren't we' of the £70 jackpot.

Game designers were given an impossible brief, you can't make a good compensated machine when the jackpot gets to those sorts of sizes relative to stake.

It's like being given a bucket of jelly and told you have to make the load-bearing pillars for a large building with it.

[Projectgilda]

Just now, Chopaholic said:

The £35 jackpot was a curious dead zone IMO, somewhere between the last pretence of games being entertainment as well as gambling (i.e. the £25 jackpot) and the 'fuck it we're just gambling then aren't we' of the £70 jackpot.

Game designers were given an impossible brief, you can't make a good compensated machine when the jackpot gets to those sorts of sizes relative to stake.

It's like being given a bucket of jelly and told you have to make the load-bearing pillars for a large building with it.

Couldn't have put it better myself, thank you. I told the bosses but they wouldn't listen, they just wanted a DOND.

[vectra666]

1 hour ago, Cavey said:

This is a good question. I remember pumping £60 at a time into machines where the most you could win was £2.40 (in actual cash) plus a repeat chance. How does that make any sense whatsoever?

Even then, I was on half decent money (ish); winning a tenner or twenty quid on AWPs wasn't going to make any difference either way.

There's no logic to compulsive gambling - whichever way you slice it, applying any sort of common sense or logic: it's a mug's game, stop doing it. The psychology of it all is counter-intuitive; it's a perverse, destructive, "press the fuck it switch" compulsion just for its own sake, once you're "in the pit".

I suppose the best analogy is smoking addiction - even when you're wheezing like a squeeze box, coughing your guts up with asthma, emphysema or even worse and there can be NO illusion of "enjoying" a cigarette that actually does nothing for you at all - the addict still sparks up first thing out of bed notwithstanding.

I have nothing but sympathy in both cases because I've been there. In both cases.

It becomes a habit, the enjoyment side of things long gone, the thrill of the chase to get thet elusive jackpot or streak’ 

smoking like drug taking, effectively the same as gambling you always want more the “kick” wears off or gets less affective.
i bet in the harshest of gambling addiction days if there was a machine completely fucked as in broken buttons only one lamp lit literally and someone just walked off winning say £20 up, as long as the reels sort of span you’d still play it! 
same as a homeless man scrounging for dog ends off the streets, I’ve been there walking around the pushers several times in the hope of a few 2ps or even better 10”s in the trays. For me Fme suppresses the need to gamble it scratches that itch

[Boulderdash]

25 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

This was my Rollercoaster for Barcrest. Failed test. £35 for a trail was hard. It played well, but didn't make the grade unfortunately.

I assume there's no roms for this available?!