Causing a bit of a stir.

[Projectgilda]

Thanks guys for the posts. Firstly, I didn't code Rollercoaster, I designed it and did the original control documents. When I say rape, I mean it was too easy to put the machine in a bad state by using roll up roll up and the skill features. I don't know why (or certainly can't remember) the point at which numbering was put in place but it was. I was playing it yesterday and got Nemesis without 1's or 12's showing in the base game or feature. So it's not 100% a tell but it certainly helps.

[Boulderdash]

1 hour ago, Projectgilda said:

Thanks guys for the posts. Firstly, I didn't code Rollercoaster, I designed it and did the original control documents. When I say rape, I mean it was too easy to put the machine in a bad state by using roll up roll up and the skill features. I don't know why (or certainly can't remember) the point at which numbering was put in place but it was. I was playing it yesterday and got Nemesis without 1's or 12's showing in the base game or feature. So it's not 100% a tell but it certainly helps.

As I'm sure you know, it could often pay a nemesis when the rest of the game was on its arse... 

[Hamsun]

I was playing Big 50 in the emu the other night. 

After taking a few sneaky JP repeaters from things like [infinite] nudges from the 'hidden' feature, skill shot and nudge steppa from the bonus, it started to clam up. It would offer useless bonuses like two nudges with no prize then losing the gamble. It then just died, spin after spin with no bonuses, no nudges. I eventually gor the Big 50 JP from a let-em-spin. As far as I know it had been 'numbering' on Ace/King/2 but I was never sure how reliable that was on Big 50.

I was playng without collecting the bank and shovelling credits in.

I've often thought with this vintage of JPM that some chips (or all?) could detect when a player was maximising 'hidden feature', bonuses and skill features in a short period and would start blocking them until a new session started. A JPM that had been milked via skill  fetures way could go very dead for long spells and then start chucking JPs on the win line. 

I put Cash Buster on auto play for an hour or so. I then played it (badly) as if trying to force it and while it would occasionally let me gamble to the top it mostly blocked at around the £5/£7 mark. It would then randomly throw in a JP.

Sadly I can't play Cash Buster as I would have in the wild on the emulator. I can't hit the stop'n'step consistently. I managed to hit it a couple of times, more by luck than judgement. The reels are too small and fuzzy (and my eyes aren't what they were)

I'm not sure if the emulated versions of Cash Buster are true skill on S'nS. If there was a way of slowing the reels down it would be easy to check. It's one of the machines I most wanted to play on the emulator and one of the reasons I signed up to the site a few weeks ago so it's a bit of a diappointment.

Edited August 3 by Hamsun
typo

[thealteredemu]

@Boulderdash That’s mad as when the machine is not numbering wins are usually limited to the £4/£5 block, though maybe log flume could repeat.  I’ve never had a jackpot feature when not numbering though I wouldn’t usually play one if it wasn’t numbering.  I need to try this in mfme!

I assume you are talking about £10 all cash version here?

Same applied on token versions of TT’ing or the token sensor was fecked.

 

J

Edited August 3 by thealteredemu

[thealteredemu]

2 minutes ago, Hamsun said:

I was playing Big 50 in the emu the other night. 

After taking a few sneaky JP repeaters from things like [infinite] nudges from the 'hidden' feature, skill shot and nudge steppa from the bonus, it started to clam up. It would offer useless bonuses like two nudges with no prize then losing the gamble. It then just died, spin after spin with no bonuses, no nudges. I eventually gor the Big 50 JP from a let-em-spin. As far as I now it had been 'numbering' on Ace/King/2 but I was never sure how reliable that was on Big 50.

I was playng without collecting the bank and shovelling credits in.

I've often thought with this vintage of JPM that some chips (or all?) could detect when a player was maximising 'hidden feature', bonuses and skill features. A JPM that had been milked this way could go very dead for long spells and then start chucking JPs on the win line. 

I put Cash Buster on auto play for an hour or so. I then played it (badly) as if trying to force it and while it would occasionally let me gamble to the top it mostly blocked at around the £5/£7 mark. It would then randomly throw in a JP.

Sadly I can't play Cash Buster as I would have in the wild on the emulator. I can't hit the stop'n'step consistently. I managed to hit it a couple of times, more by luck than judgement. The reels are too small and fuzzy (and my eyes aren't what they were)

I'm not sure if the emulated versions of Cash Buster are true skill on S'nS. If there was a way of slowing the reels down it would be easy to check. It's one of the machines I most wanted to play on the emulator and one of the reasons I signed up to the site a few weeks ago so it's a bit of a diappointment.

Maybe request a larger graphic revamp with better hi res reels.

J

[thealteredemu]

On older revisions of mfme you could set speed on emulator but can’t remember the oldest version that allowed this v3 or 2.1 maybe, if the layout was built with v2 then it might help you out.  Though it might not even run in later versions of windows.

J

[Hamsun]

Yes, £10 cash versions. From memory, I'm fairly sure later rechips of Cash Buster blocked S'n's even when it was happy. I think some versions also slipped but again, it was a long time ago.

It's still a reasonably playable machine without S'n'S but it's not the same...

When playing it in the wild there was a fairly obvious marker on the reel that made it easy to hit SnS if you were any good at skill stops. 

Edited August 3 by Hamsun

[Projectgilda]

There's a £4 block on Rollercoaster. So log flume is your best bet ✌

[Boulderdash]

30 minutes ago, thealteredemu said:

@Boulderdash That’s mad as when the machine is not numbering wins are usually limited to the £4/£5 block, though maybe log flume could repeat.  I’ve never had a jackpot feature when not numbering though I wouldn’t usually play one if it wasn’t numbering.  I need to try this in mfme!

I assume you are talking about £10 all cash version here?

Same applied on token versions of TT’ing or the token sensor was fecked.

 

J

Yes, £10 cash version

I'll have to play it when I get back from holiday, but I'm pretty sure the way my current game is saved it'll start numbering quickly, or already is, so it'll go to the top and then I've often had nemesis afterwards, but maybe the numbers were still there. 

Edited August 3 by Boulderdash

[Projectgilda]

Nemesis is classed as a Jackpot feature in the control. With genuine 50/50 credit breaks for further wins.

[Chopaholic]

Can't you just get Nemesis and it loses the gamble from grapes to melons, making it an under the block feature, as that'd add up to £3.80p.

[Projectgilda]

No. As long as you go the right way it'll get as close to the jackpot value before a credit check repeat.

[thealteredemu]

Not if it’s pre assigned as jackpot capable, depends how it’s coded.  But you could do it on all features just keep the block so test your strength could even just go to £4 with repeat, Rollercoaster could just do £4 repeat chance etc.  I guess it could make it more complicated and open to some exploitation, like keeping the machine happy taking wins from the block and build up for an insanely huge rollercoaster from the ripened jackpot pot?

J

[Boulderdash]

44 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

Nemesis is classed as a Jackpot feature in the control. With genuine 50/50 credit breaks for further wins.

I find it very hard to believe it's 50/50. I can't remember the last time the £10 all cash version didn't go all the way

[Projectgilda]

I had it yesterday. A fail on the £4.00/£5.00 gamble

[Hamsun]

Apologies: I think there was a bit of cross-posting above. I was talking about Cash Buster and Big 50 and not Rollercoaster.

[dondplayer]

1 hour ago, Hamsun said:

I'm not sure if the emulated versions of Cash Buster are true skill on S'nS. If there was a way of slowing the reels down it would be easy to check. It's one of the machines I most wanted to play on the emulator and one of the reasons I signed up to the site a few weeks ago so it's a bit of a diappointment.

Try using cheat engine which can slow down or speed up the executable.

[Cavey]

@Boulderdash

I'm probably talking shite to be fair; I'm trying to remember the late 90s (when this stuff actually happened), but let's face it, that's almost 30 years ago(!), a lot of water under the bridge. Probably doesn't help that I was always playing them in motorway services (as my job involved a lot of driving), and the RTP was probably screwed right down to 70%, not exactly conducive to good gameplay even for the very best machines.

I do distinctly remember thinking "how come JPM has got so bad compared to Rollercoaster and Indy", though (these games were around a few years before, around '94 or '95 IIRC), and I also remember the JP just being thrown at you on these later era games if you weren't playing them "right" as well.

Edited August 3 by Cavey

[MikeyMonster]

4 hours ago, Hamsun said:

I was playing Big 50 in the emu the other night. 

After taking a few sneaky JP repeaters from things like [infinite] nudges from the 'hidden' feature, skill shot and nudge steppa from the bonus, it started to clam up. It would offer useless bonuses like two nudges with no prize then losing the gamble. It then just died, spin after spin with no bonuses, no nudges. I eventually gor the Big 50 JP from a let-em-spin. As far as I know it had been 'numbering' on Ace/King/2 but I was never sure how reliable that was on Big 50.

I was playng without collecting the bank and shovelling credits in.

I've often thought with this vintage of JPM that some chips (or all?) could detect when a player was maximising 'hidden feature', bonuses and skill features in a short period and would start blocking them until a new session started. A JPM that had been milked via skill  fetures way could go very dead for long spells and then start chucking JPs on the win line. 

I put Cash Buster on auto play for an hour or so. I then played it (badly) as if trying to force it and while it would occasionally let me gamble to the top it mostly blocked at around the £5/£7 mark. It would then randomly throw in a JP.

Sadly I can't play Cash Buster as I would have in the wild on the emulator. I can't hit the stop'n'step consistently. I managed to hit it a couple of times, more by luck than judgement. The reels are too small and fuzzy (and my eyes aren't what they were)

I'm not sure if the emulated versions of Cash Buster are true skill on S'nS. If there was a way of slowing the reels down it would be easy to check. It's one of the machines I most wanted to play on the emulator and one of the reasons I signed up to the site a few weeks ago so it's a bit of a diappointment.

I think SnS is true skill on the emulator - like you, I can't get anywhere near my hit rate from when i was young - I was reckon i was 90% plus back in the day, more like 40-50% now.

[MikeyMonster]

3 hours ago, Projectgilda said:

Nemesis is classed as a Jackpot feature in the control. With genuine 50/50 credit breaks for further wins.

Really? Even on the £10 chips? In my experience, Nemesis on £10 chips would go to £28.80, almost every time, like at least 9 out of 10, 

You were gutted when it stopped on £18.80!

[Projectgilda]

It'd be illegal to guarantee anything over £10. 50/50 is the highest chance you can give. This i can guarantee is correct. 50/50 breaks were one of the gaming commissions big bug bears and we have to prove this on most of our machines. Some other companies games, especially lo-techs, were dodgy as hell in this regard but my machines always stuck to the rules.

[MikeyMonster]

6 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

It'd be illegal to guarantee anything over £10. 50/50 is the highest chance you can give. This i can guarantee is correct. 50/50 breaks were one of the gaming commissions big bug bears and we have to prove this on most of our machines. Some other companies games, especially lo-techs, were dodgy as hell in this regard but my machines always stuck to the rules.

This would explain why machines didn't repeat on JP's when you were sure they were going to and KNEW they had the value to do so, however, how does "true skill" which Barcrest and others definitely had on JP's work then? Yes, it can be missed, but its now not a 50/50 proposition.

I think you mentioned that you didn't code RC - is it possible then that the RC feature was 50/50, but Nemesis was incorrectly coded? I mean back in the day, if I was on Nemesis on a 1 or a 12, I would collect this rather than Rollercoaster, as the £28.80 was that close to guaranteed, and even if RC credit broke once, you would be worse off. Incidentally, on the £15 version, it was much more common for it to credit break once not twice but would still happily give the £43.80 for a full climb at least half the time and no break was rare.

Give the £10 game on here a whirl, there are plenty of versions, but they all happily do £28.80 on Nemesis well over 50% of the time and if the credit break was a genuine 50 50, it should only be 1 in 4. 

Hope this doesn't sound too badgering, I am genuinely interested here - as machines were it was better to take something other than a straight JP feature, or JP repeat always intrigued me.

[Projectgilda]

A true skill Jackpot has already passed it's 50/50 so instead of the player just hitting a fast yes/no they get a skill shot. Feels better for the player. If you play Nemesis enough it'll work out at max prize = 1/4. You may not believe it but it's true. Rollercoaster feature can repeat 4 times so circa £50. Though after 2 the 50/50 chance is reduced (can't remember to exactly what). Nemesis was always 50/50. My machines were more interested in giving a Jackpot as opposed to multiple 'big streak' jackpots that just killed the machine. Indiana Jones is a great example where going for the end is a fruitless task when your passing on several jackpot features on the board. Going back to Rollercoaster. I see people turning down test your strength which I've always thought was crazy. Turning down a jackpot for a small chance of landing on a bigger feature that has to pass a credit check. But everyone has there own way to play I guess. The only time I'd collect the waltzers or nemesis is if I landed on it and not test your strength.

Edited August 3 by Projectgilda

[thealteredemu]

50/50 repeats especially on the BWB video machines didn't seem true, I played these extensively back in the day and if you were doing a Monte or Reno etc, it was pretty much guaranteed on good numbers to repeat but on bad numbers it was definitely not a 50/50 repeat.  I guess it all depended on how much value the machine had, obviously it's not going to repeat if it can't afford it 50/50 or not.  I've had a jackpot repeat on a bad number bud it was a rare sight indeed

J

[Boulderdash]

24 minutes ago, MikeyMonster said:

This would explain why machines didn't repeat on JP's when you were sure they were going to and KNEW they had the value to do so, however, how does "true skill" which Barcrest and others definitely had on JP's work then? Yes, it can be missed, but its now not a 50/50 proposition.

I think you mentioned that you didn't code RC - is it possible then that the RC feature was 50/50, but Nemesis was incorrectly coded? I mean back in the day, if I was on Nemesis on a 1 or a 12, I would collect this rather than Rollercoaster, as the £28.80 was that close to guaranteed, and even if RC credit broke once, you would be worse off. Incidentally, on the £15 version, it was much more common for it to credit break once not twice but would still happily give the £43.80 for a full climb at least half the time and no break was rare.

Give the £10 game on here a whirl, there are plenty of versions, but they all happily do £28.80 on Nemesis well over 50% of the time and if the credit break was a genuine 50 50, it should only be 1 in 4. 

Hope this doesn't sound too badgering, I am genuinely interested here - as machines were it was better to take something other than a straight JP feature, or JP repeat always intrigued me.

Absolutely. Maybe rollercoaster was a genuine to 50/50 repeat but nemesis was virtually guaranteed 28.80.

It's why i don't like its sibling Sidewinder, because that would regularly fuck you for next to nothing