Causing a bit of a stir.

[Projectgilda]

You have to get the game into mode 5 for £50. You can do it from the cash ladder or 'let em spin' or hidden features, it makes no difference. 

There's no pots stored just a happy machine. We never broke the legal 50/50 so it's pure luck if you get it. Fact.

Edited September 11, 2025 by Projectgilda

[woodsy]

On 10/09/2025 at 15:30, Hamsun said:

I'm not sure if this is the best thread to ask but I wonder if anyone knows how many (if any) original ROMs we have for JPM and ACE from the late 1990s/early 2000s.

This period includes many of my favourite machines but the layouts I've tried (apart from maybe Fast Trak and one or two others) all seem to be on those crappy chips that spin in JPs while blocking JP features and setups for hidden bonus features &c.

any arcadia roms would be awesoime

[Chopaholic]

6 hours ago, Projectgilda said:

You have to get the game into mode 5 for £50. You can do it from the cash ladder or 'let em spin' or hidden features, it makes no difference. 

There's no pots stored just a happy machine. We never broke the legal 50/50 so it's pure luck if you get it. Fact.

As best we can tell from footage of real machines that are still out there in the wild (as per the videos), and what we have emulated, is that prior to the Series 11 rechip they could do a 'natural' £50 in the standard course of play, whereas Series 11 with the 'tighten percentage control' change meant that unless you deliberately play the machine like an absolute numpty for quite an extended period of time (or let autoplay do it for you in the emulator), the £50 is essentially permanently blocked.

Series 12 is the one we have emulated and that of course has the Series 11 behaviour as part of its profile.

I'm assuming that 'Mode 5' is maximum compensator happiness, and that by extension the Series 11 rechip changed the parameters at which it'll be entered?

[Mort]

I do have the Series 8 ROM running (standard profile, £10 ROM) I thought I posted and talked about this before, can't remember.

Do you want me to upload it ?

Edited September 12, 2025 by Mort

[Retrofruit]

On 27/08/2025 at 20:47, wearecity said:

Ah it was Retrofruit

Unfortunately because it was too easy to just force a JP from several Maygay clubbers by hi-lo gamble on a reel win, they introduced a £25 block on the gamble that you couldn't ever get past regardless of happiness or number. Sad really. They could have gone the BFM route which was to allow hi-lo on the printed values and block the variable ones. By that I mean if you look at something like Cops and Robbers club, there are fixed (printed) values then the top of the trail has blacked out values that were only lit depending on the prize level. Typically the printed values went to £50 or £75 max. Eventually when BFM's are happy enough you can break through the printed ceiling, then it pretty much doesn't matter what number you gamble on.

Absolutely agree with this, was the code so bad that it couldn't control itself beyond £25 on any of the clubbers? For all intents and purposes Club Coronation Street is a Cops and Robbers, the board concepts are identical with the superboard and nudges (which can pay Bells for £250 as I had it in real life). So why not make the block £50 or £75 same as BFM and indeed JPM (those with experience of how JPM's behave at £75 in terms of features and gambles will know what I am talking about) - why £25? It's just too low and like C&R you can be offered superboard exchanges at this level but unlike C&R can't then gamble to it.

Frankly as long as your code is controlling wins to affordable/happiness levels it shouldn't matter if the punter chooses the hi-lo as their preferred jackpot route over the feature board, you just don't allow it until it is ready and hold some back for feature play. Worked for BFM just fine.

 

[Retrofruit]

On 03/08/2025 at 21:46, MikeyMonster said:

@Projectgilda I never saw a £6 Token, RC as per its original release, and never really played the £8 one. My experiences are really based on the £10 version.

I think its a distinct possibility, that on the original, the credit break was 50/50 max (and isnt there another JPM game - maybe one of the Popeyes, which has a similar feature?)

Its not the case on the £10 version though - so presumably changes were made on the upgrade - whether deliberately or in error we will never know. 

I didn't see an RC until £8 but spoke to a player who had briefly played it on £6 and it played differently, for example they claimed on £6 that Test Your Strength could repeat more than once, which anyone who has played £8 or later knows it is 100% restricted to one repeat only (and now everyone knows how to play them properly and there is little extra value, repeats are rare)

The credit breaks are well known on Rollercoaster, there is no way on earth on £8 and later they are 50/50. For example the first token one I played in my local arcade would NEVER go beyond £24 on RC. Two credit breaks was your maximum. Nemesis would ALWAYS go all the way. On £10 cash the repeat record in our arcade was 7.

What happened post the original £8 release (presumably feedback from customers to JPM was that machines were just paying constant tokens and firing empty) is that the code was changed so that the token level was internally monitored. When tokens were getting low (not necessarily TT) RC would block all token features or pay part cash. So let's say TT was triggered, the code knew this, so if you then put £10 in tokens in, you could get a Rollercoaster feature that paid £8 tokens (which it knew had been entered) and could then repeat for £4 cash, but could never do £16 (unless tokens were properly refilled). Big Money would only select £4 for a repeat etc.

[Retrofruit]

On 01/08/2025 at 22:23, Boulderdash said:

Never seen one on £15. 

They are on £15 in The Reel Vegas Blackpool.

The main reason £15 wasn't wildly implemented is because they number for a £105 and 9/10 times go empty paying it so arcades put it back on £10. The tube capacity just isn't there to justify this as a £15 game, but it's fine on £10.

£15 also does crazy things like the Nemesis can end at any point except cherries, so can end even on mixed bars or grapes.

[MikeyMonster]

3 hours ago, Retrofruit said:

They are on £15 in The Reel Vegas Blackpool.

The main reason £15 wasn't wildly implemented is because they number for a £105 and 9/10 times go empty paying it so arcades put it back on £10. The tube capacity just isn't there to justify this as a £15 game, but it's fine on £10.

£15 also does crazy things like the Nemesis can end at any point except cherries, so can end even on mixed bars or grapes.

I got reliably informed at the time that the £15 was rare - low numbers made compared to the amount of RC units - hence not that common.

I got 105 once, not on RC - that gave £75, but it boarded on the no spin, and went to Test your strength - which repeated,

 

[thealteredemu]

It might be down to the operator the £15.  I believe they are also switchable so I guess it could also be a lot of (especially) seaside arcades just can’t be arsed to do the decal changes.   I’ve seen plenty in arcades but mostly pubs and AGC places.

J

[thealteredemu]

I’ve have the 105 from the RC feature.  I preferred the £15 version, they could go huge.

J

[Projectgilda]

3 hours ago, Retrofruit said:

I didn't see an RC until £8 but spoke to a player who had briefly played it on £6 and it played differently, for example they claimed on £6 that Test Your Strength could repeat more than once, which anyone who has played £8 or later knows it is 100% restricted to one repeat only (and now everyone knows how to play them properly and there is little extra value, repeats are rare)

The credit breaks are well known on Rollercoaster, there is no way on earth on £8 and later they are 50/50. For example the first token one I played in my local arcade would NEVER go beyond £24 on RC. Two credit breaks was your maximum. Nemesis would ALWAYS go all the way. On £10 cash the repeat record in our arcade was 7.

What happened post the original £8 release (presumably feedback from customers to JPM was that machines were just paying constant tokens and firing empty) is that the code was changed so that the token level was internally monitored. When tokens were getting low (not necessarily TT) RC would block all token features or pay part cash. So let's say TT was triggered, the code knew this, so if you then put £10 in tokens in, you could get a Rollercoaster feature that paid £8 tokens (which it knew had been entered) and could then repeat for £4 cash, but could never do £16 (unless tokens were properly refilled). Big Money would only select £4 for a repeat etc.

Nemesis was never guaranteed to go all the way. That would be illegal.

[thealteredemu]

With a credit break it is not illegal.

J

[Chopaholic]

Just now, thealteredemu said:

With a credit break it is not illegal.

J

@Projectgilda is talking about the repeat being 'guaranteed' if Nemesis always went all the way, when the regulation said it had to be 50/50. (As it has to credit break twice if it's going to do that.)

There were definitely Roller Coaster chips where Nemesis always went all the way to the top - as several people have now noted in this thread  

[Chopaholic]

4 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

Nemesis was never guaranteed to go all the way. That would be illegal.

With the greatest of respect, the fact that something might be illegal - (or to be more accurate, 'non-compliant') - never seems to have given some sections of the fruit machine industry much in the way of pause for thought over the decades  

[MikeP]

My experience on Roller Coaster was mostly on £6 jackpot, and some on £8.  I used to play in pubs, not arcades, and by the £10 and £15 eras the pubs usually had games designed for those jackpots, not updated older games, so I can’t remember playing RC at all even on £10.

My experience was that Nemesis was a great feature but was by no means guaranteed to go all the way, I can quite believe it was 50/50 whether it would continue over a credit break.  Maybe the other (probably illegal?) behaviour was introduced on the £10 or £15 rechips.

[Chopaholic]

43 minutes ago, MikeP said:

My experience on Roller Coaster was mostly on £6 jackpot, and some on £8.  I used to play in pubs, not arcades, and by the £10 and £15 eras the pubs usually had games designed for those jackpots, not updated older games, so I can’t remember playing RC at all even on £10.

My experience was that Nemesis was a great feature but was by no means guaranteed to go all the way, I can quite believe it was 50/50 whether it would continue over a credit break.  Maybe the other (probably illegal?) behaviour was introduced on the £10 or £15 rechips.

Well that's the thing there were loads of chips for RC over the years from £6 all the way to £15 with some very different behaviours.

I remember it first turning up on the £6 jackpot and Test Your Strength liked to do two repeats, most later chips can't do that. (I see @Retrofruit made the same point above.)

There was definitely a £10 chip that was a 100% lock-in for Nemesis to go all the way, never missed.

[Boulderdash]

11 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

Well that's the thing there were loads of chips for RC over the years from £6 all the way to £15 with some very different behaviours.

I remember it first turning up on the £6 jackpot and Test Your Strength liked to do two repeats, most later chips can't do that. (I see @Retrofruit made the same point above.)

There was definitely a £10 chip that was a 100% lock-in for Nemesis to go all the way, never missed.

So who was bastardising @Projectgilda's code, because he's adamant it was 50/50?

We all know machines that would ALWAYS go to the top on nemesis. 

[Chopaholic]

Just now, Boulderdash said:

So who was bastardising @Projectgilda's code, because he's adamant it was 50/50?

We all know machines that would ALWAYS go to the top on nemesis. 

IIRC @Projectgilda didn't code the machines he designed them, but happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong.

My feeling is that there could easily be a disconnect between what was originally designed, and what was implemented in code, especially when it came to rechips for higher jackpots and/or gameplay revisions.

[Boulderdash]

54 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

IIRC @Projectgilda didn't code the machines he designed them, but happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong.

My feeling is that there could easily be a disconnect between what was originally designed, and what was implemented in code, especially when it came to rechips for higher jackpots and/or gameplay revisions.

Oh, my mistake

[MikeyMonster]

On 07/10/2025 at 10:06, Chopaholic said:

 

There was definitely a £10 chip that was a 100% lock-in for Nemesis to go all the way, never missed.

Well... maybe 99% - Very occasionally, it would give just one credit break and give the yellow then blue bars, but not the £10 for the JP.

You were absolutely DEVASTATED when that happened - cos as we have said, it was a lock for £28.80 on the £10 chips we all saw. I mean, it was one of the best payers in the arcades - cos I don't recall (and I was making plenty in the arcades in this era) anything else being as 99% guaranteed. 

[Projectgilda]

So why, pray, have I just had less than £10 off nemesis in the £10 emulation?

[thealteredemu]

I think it seemed guaranteed, especially if you played it out.  I dare say when it is well behind it will gladly go all the way,  if there is still value and you take it soon after it definitely won’t go all the way.

I don’t think it was guaranteed every time. Surely it looks ahead to equate machine value?  

J

[Chopaholic]

7 hours ago, Projectgilda said:

So why, pray, have I just had less than £10 off nemesis in the £10 emulation?

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I've never seen it  

Take Nemesis 100 times on the emulated chip and I guarantee that it'll go all the way 99% of the time (probably 100% TBH), which is way outside anything that could happen statistically on a 50/50.

There was a £10 chip Roller Coaster here in an arcade for years, and years, and years, I'd periodically visit it and I never saw Nemesis fail to do the full £28.80p once.

[Boulderdash]

1 hour ago, Chopaholic said:

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I've never seen it  

Take Nemesis 100 times on the emulated chip and I guarantee that it'll go all the way 99% of the time (probably 100% TBH), which is way outside anything that could happen statistically on a 50/50.

There was a £10 chip Roller Coaster here in an arcade for years, and years, and years, I'd periodically visit it and I never saw Nemesis fail to do the full £28.80p once.

I just got killed at £5.80, even though it offered jackpot on the previous board

[Chopaholic]

27 minutes ago, Boulderdash said:

I just got killed at £5.80, even though it offered jackpot on the previous board

It's possible the emulated chip is a different £10 chip to ones that were out in the wild, as we know from that Hidden JPM Vault Of Rechip Information, they did a lot of software revisions to their machines for all kinds of reasons.

I don't have it to hand but I know @Mort has posted it before.