Causing a bit of a stir.

[Chopaholic]

4 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

There's no proof that it ever did. JPM never did it, nor projectcoin or Barcrest. If Ace or Crystal did I'm sure I'd have found out. So we're limiting it down somewhat. 

edwardb literally said they put stats play code in some of their machines, and also that they found Red machines that would go into stats play mode when they were dissecting them.

[edwardb]

Just now, Chopaholic said:

edwardb literally said they put stats play code in some of their machines.

Mazooma certainly did, and I'm 95% sure BFG did too at some stage. I will point out that, given they are compensated games, the machine would eventually pay the money out, but the short-term mangle-the-gameplay was certainly a thing on Mazooma UK machines for a while.

[Projectgilda]

11 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

edwardb literally said they put stats play code in some of their machines, and also that they found Red machines that would go into stats play mode when they were dissecting them.

I'm not disputing it's a thing. I'm saying there's no proof if it ever affected players in the wild. That's all.

[Chopaholic]

3 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

I'm not disputing it's a thing. I'm saying there's no proof if it ever affected players in the wild. That's all.

Again, as per the research I did for the video, edwardb has previously stated that it was 'very rare' that a machine would go into stats play mode when it was out on site.

'Very rare' is not the same as never. Very rare means it did happen, rather than it didn't happen.

[slotsmagic]

6 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

Again, as per the research I did for the video, edwardb has previously stated that it was 'very rare' that a machine would go into stats play mode when it was out on site.

'Very rare' is not the same as never. Very rare means it did happen, rather than it didn't happen.

Absolutely. I'm sure I experienced it more than once and like you, I went out armed with a large float of £1 coins. So perhaps it only hit the players who were more likely to get annoyed and frustrated (like me) who believed that ultimately - 'the machine must pay what it owes, surely'?!

Doesn't help that on £25 and £35 jackpots a £100 top is entirely possible. So there's nothing at all suspicious about someone putting in £100 of £1 coins.

That seems a despicably low volume of £1 coins 'in a row'. 

If anything it's more like a 'rinse the addict' mode rather than anything to stop competition.

Edited August 27, 2025 by slotsmagic

[Hamsun]

I find it hard to believe that putting only £1 coins in would affect the profile. I'm more convinced that playing without a break over a long period, without letting the machine go into attract mode, does have an effect.

It might be just imagination but a lot of AWPs did seem to clam up on nudges, features, holds &c when fed rapidly without a break.

[Chopaholic]

14 minutes ago, Hamsun said:

I find it hard to believe that putting only £1 coins in would affect the profile. I'm more convinced that playing without a break over a long period, without letting the machine go into attract mode, does have an effect.

It might be just imagination but a lot of AWPs did seem to clam up on nudges, features, holds &c when fed rapidly without a break.

OK, but that's not the way it was explained to us by the guy who used to write the code for fruit machines.

[Projectgilda]

12 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

OK, but that's not the way it was explained to us by the guy who used to write the code for fruit machines.

But he never coded that code, so his opinion is just that. I agree that £1's alone wouldn't put it into that mode. Very rare that players would spend an hour punting just £1's into a machine. Length of play would have been a good highlight of competitor play. 

[woodsy]

33 minutes ago, Hamsun said:

I find it hard to believe that putting only £1 coins in would affect the profile. I'm more convinced that playing without a break over a long period, without letting the machine go into attract mode, does have an effect.

It might be just imagination but a lot of AWPs did seem to clam up on nudges, features, holds &c when fed rapidly without a break.

weird quirk or fallacy when playing big brother, it would be dead 1knock starts for ages even after pumping i'd stop let it go into attract and the first board would give 3/4 knock start and be jp or very friendly as expected with that start.

fallacy probably.

also a guy used to come on the pier and solely play with 10p's though he was tight but he was always getting mad lucky on some games.

[thealteredemu]

Without any physical evidence of stat play it’s hard to know how it affected normal punters in the wild.

J

[Cavey]

15 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

But he never coded that code, so his opinion is just that. I agree that £1's alone wouldn't put it into that mode. Very rare that players would spend an hour punting just £1's into a machine. Length of play would have been a good highlight of competitor play. 

Surely there's a way of empirically determining whether or not this is "a thing".

Set up autoplay to use only £1 coins on a couple of Red Gaming offerings and off we go. Then "manually" interrupt and play for a bit and see what the gameplay is like.

[thealteredemu]

This is the problem we don't have any numbers regarding any tipping point mechanisms.  How many spins on say £1 till the machine enters this mode.  100's, 1,000's, (100,000's, if aimed solely at hiding complete game mechanics from other manufacturers).

@edwardb If you know, what were the stat play tipping point mechanisms, 100's of spins or literally 1000's, or bigger.  If you have an idea of course.

J

[Chopaholic]

14 minutes ago, thealteredemu said:

This is the problem we don't have any numbers regarding any tipping point mechanisms.  How many spins on say £1 till the machine enters this mode.  100's, 1,000's, (100,000's, if aimed solely at hiding complete game mechanics from other manufacturers).

@edwardb If you know, what were the stat play tipping point mechanisms, 100's of spins or literally 1000's, or bigger.  If you have an idea of course.

J

Goodness me man! This is all out there on the forums!

I did all this spadework already and put it in the video.

Lord help us  

Fruit Machines Inside Out: Compensation - Real Fruit Machines - Fruit-Emu

[thealteredemu]

Ah, fruitemu.  It’s been a long day

J

[Cavey]

But what happens if holds flash after a nudge and has Crazy Fruits been emulated?

/fetches coat  

[thealteredemu]

I’d not seen this previously even though you probably have mentioned it multiple times.  

J

[Chopaholic]

13 minutes ago, Cavey said:

But what happens if holds flash after a nudge and has Crazy Fruits been emulated?

/fetches coat  

I went there and spent ages digging around so you good folks here at DIF don't have to!

[Cavey]

42 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

I went there and spent ages digging around so you good folks here at DIF don't have to!

Sorry, twas a lamely unhelpful, comedic reference to clueless "neds" interjecting on every thread and nagging for CF c.2003 on FF etc., oh well if you have to explain an (extremely crap) joke etc.  

[Cavey]

Joking aside though, do we know if club machines were affected by this?  

[Chopaholic]

2 minutes ago, Cavey said:

Sorry, twas a lamely unhelpful, comedic reference to clueless "neds" interjecting on every thread and nagging for CF c.2003 on FF etc., oh well if you have to explain an (extremely crap) joke etc.  

It's fine I got the reference perfectly well

For all its faults there are some decent FME archive type things to be found there, a decent gallery archive, and some interesting threads too.

Stats play on club machines is an interesting one, Mazooma made a fair few clubbers so there's the scope for it, but I didn't come across it being mentioned anywhere.

[Cavey]

3 hours ago, Projectgilda said:

There's no proof that it ever did. JPM never did it, nor projectcoin or Barcrest. If Ace or Crystal did I'm sure I'd have found out. So we're limiting it down somewhat. 

Weren't Red Gaming part of Barcrest though? If Barcrest didn't do it, is that literally just Barcrest - or all of their (contemporary) group companies of the time like Red, BWB, Vivid (and even Maygay in the end)?

[Projectgilda]

Red were a subsidiary of Barcrest that's true. But no-one knew what they did. They were totally separate to Barcrest.

[Cavey]

3 minutes ago, Projectgilda said:

Red were a subsidiary of Barcrest that's true. But no-one knew what they did. They were totally separate to Barcrest.

Ah ok, cheers. I used to know a guy Fruitsim on the forums years back who had worked there (who was instrumental for their MPU5 Line Up IIRC, among others), and I remember him mentioning their autonomy now you mention it.

[edwardb]

3 hours ago, Hamsun said:

I find it hard to believe that putting only £1 coins in would affect the profile. I'm more convinced that playing without a break over a long period, without letting the machine go into attract mode, does have an effect.

It might be just imagination but a lot of AWPs did seem to clam up on nudges, features, holds &c when fed rapidly without a break.

You are imagining it  Remember that most machines from the early 90s onwards were coded on PC and fast-played before the code got near the hardware. PCs have no concept of time spent doing attract modes when you're doing a 100K game stats run....

[edwardb]

58 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

Stats play on club machines is an interesting one, Mazooma made a fair few clubbers so there's the scope for it, but I didn't come across it being mentioned anywhere.

All Mazooma club machines were just clones of BFG machines; we got the code and just changed the audio, feature names and stuff. All the control/compensation was identical to the original machine. I think Pac Man Club took a few days to do.