Cheating or Tight Fisted ?

[WonkySausage]

So finally got a jackpot (cost £863 from ram  reset) - and noted that it paid £100 not £70  doesn't explain your predicament AK, but does explain why its really difficult to get the jackpot in the first place.

Currently running at £873 in, £520 out - running at 59%

[AK45]

1 hour ago, WonkySausage said:

so finally got a jackpot (cost £863 from ram  reset) - and noted that it paid £100 not £70  doesn't explain your predicament AK, but does explain why its really difficult to get the jackpot in the first place.

Its good that it will actually give a jackpot but at a cost of £863 is quite extreme , i have reset some machines ram for one reason or another and it usually takes £100 or less to get a jackpot but like others have said these machines are apparently well known to be brutal. Thankyou again @WonkySausagefor putting it through its paces and getting some idea of whats actually going on all be it my ram is just nuts lol

[WonkySausage]

You know another thing  I've just noticed, and it's a real facepalm  moment @AK45

I'm  about £1220 in at the moment, running at 56% payout so far. During that money, i've had  "wink" nudges 3 times - which, because the 7 seg is really small, it's really hard to see if it's winking for £10 or winking for £100.

Now originally I posted it was winking for £100 every time (as the  wink nudge is so infrequent) - however I've just had it wink for 9 nudges, with a bar on the middle reel, a bar 1 nudge away on reel 3 so thought yeah, my theory stands up - it's so infrequent it only ever winks for £100 wins - NOPE  haha  the  bar on reel 1 wasn't there. So I wonder if it winks for £10,  but you have to be careful  and see if the JP is within 9 nudges away

Love learning stuff like this, keeps you on your toes

Edited January 17, 2023 by WonkySausage

[slotsmagic]

1 hour ago, WonkySausage said:

So I wonder if it winks for £10,  but you have to be careful  and see if the JP is within 9 nudges away

Love learning stuff like this, keeps you on your toes

I've had that on machines before... Might have been my Chuzzy Bar X? Whistled for X's but had enough extra nudges for the jackpot. Definitely have had it before but can't remember exactly where

[WonkySausage]

so after 2300 in, i called it a night - then fired it up this morning - to my horror, the dreaded ram reset bug - it was flashing and beeping, and low and behold my stats had been wiped even though mfme meters were still showing 2300 in for 1600 out.

Thank fuck i've been backing up my gam and ram files so i'm back to it's previous state of 2026 in for 1500 out.

And  for this two grand in... i've only had 3 jackpots.

People have been saying this machine is brutal, they're not wrong, but this is just stupid. I've no idea how or even if it will get to it's 86% payout when it's about 600-700 quid behind

Edited January 18, 2023 by WonkySausage

[slotsmagic]

1 hour ago, WonkySausage said:

so after 2300 in, i called it a night - then fired it up this morning - to my horror, the dreaded ram reset bug - it was flashing and beeping, and low and behold my stats had been wiped even though mfme meters were still showing 2300 in for 1600 out.

Thank fuck i've been backing up my gam and ram files so i'm back to it's previous state of 2026 in for 1500 out.

And  for this two grand in... i've only had 3 jackpots.

People have been saying this machine is brutal, they're not wrong, but this is just stupid. I've no idea how or even if it will get to it's 86% payout when it's about 600-700 quid behind

There's a chap I've bought machines from in the past - he had one which I believe was from a reset and it played terribly for the first £1250 or so, before it started waking up, and even then he didn't get a good roll. Probably a sales tactic from Concept - 'We guarantee that the machine will pay for itself over the first few thousand credits'*

His YouTube channel is Slots of Fun.

In seriousness the one near me plays a good game - doesn't seem to get much play so I give it a week since I've last rolled it and try a ten or maybe twenty see if it's waking up. If not I leave it and try a week later. 

Either they take a VERY long time to settle down, or the one near me is a different ROM profile or revision. I'm not sure if Random Gold has different profiles - I know some Concept software is switchable between 'hard' and 'soft'. Maybe my local one is a soft profile.

Definitely odd machines though, and apart from my local one I certainly wouldn't play one with more than a tenner. Not worth the risk of it having been RAM reset or similar.

 

*Not a real quote obviously.

[WonkySausage]

yeah it's definitely on the harsher side - i've just had a 150 streak though, a mixture of all the other symbols.

I wish I knew how to access the internal stats and see things like profile. But in test mode it doesn't seem to do anything, and there's only 5 things in test mode (thought there was 9?) and refill just shows you hopper levels, even with back door open

There is something i'm not sure what it does - but in test mode option 5 is "Targ" when i assumed  was for changing the %age - but it isn't.. all you can do is change the value from 200 - 500 in H1 (hopper 1 i assume) - but I wonder what it does and why it's listed under "targ" - I wonder like you said, it's a profile thing, the lower the number, the cheaper it costs to get a streak?? I doubt it though, why would it mention the hopper in the first place. Seems weird, well there's only one way to find out!!! Gonna copy the game into a seperate folder, ram reset, and lower that value and see how it plays. Speak later  

 

Edit: At the moment, the one I have with 2300 through it, is set to 500. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by WonkySausage

[WonkySausage]

well, it was blindingly obvious, but for whatever reason "targ" in test mode determines how many £1 coins the hopper can take. Though I still wonder if having it at £200 as opposed to £500 changes gameplay at all, for whatever reason.  Unlikely, but hey...

[slotsmagic]

I found that TARG setting when I was playing with the existing Bar X 7even layout earlier which is running Concept £10/£15/£25 software. It's weird classing a hopper limit as 'target'. Does make me wonder if it might relate to streak potential... but at the same time I'm not sure

[slotsmagic]

1 hour ago, Coskey Fruits said:

Can you please give a short description of what happens when it goes on a run? It's okay if it's just on the emulator, don't go do it for real and film it or nothing I don't want anyone to lose money.  Funny that this thread mentions concept games being shit and tight, as the 'Dance with a Devil' emulator layout gives exactly the same game play over and over again when the ram is cleared.  I have no idea why it does this, but it's exactly the same reels and the same game including a Jackpot in no time at all after a ram reset.  I agree that in real life, these machines are deadly in a bad mood, I've known people on the £100 versions lose over a grand and walk away with nothing but broken pride, empty pockets, and an angry and upset empty feeling, swearing never to do it again, I guess they do though, because the dream world capacity of gambling obliterates bad memories, sadly like myself we come back, dream greater dreams and in turn suffer more misery.  But doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is like madness, is it not?  That is what I think anyway.  I agree with Slots Magic, a few quid here and there and walk off.  Maybe have a go on a £100 money mad mushrooms on a T7 instead.  If you get robbed by these pick the right hand side for the repeat, if you don't get robbed and get a £100 quick, it's often the left mushroom for the repeat.  Just from experience, this is how I have worked them out.  Not always the case tho, but had results doing this   Please note though that for new bees to the scene, T7 games ARE NOT EMULATED.  Just for reference, I personally don't gamble for real money anymore and have not done for quite some time.  Never gamble to escape from worry or trouble, when your upset and things are not going well.  Only ever gamble with money YOU can AFFORD to lose.  Never chase losses.

It's pretty obvious really, as with most machines on a run. So if it's not in the mood, you'll probably find you are putting in £20 for a maximum £5/£10 back. Rinse and repeat.

When it's on a run, it's the opposite. You'll be collecting £5 from the bank, putting it back in, and getting a £5 or more return from it. Then you'll find the wins are holding, it'll be whistling (giving extra nudges and flashing the win available from the extra nudges in the 7 seg displays), and generally very happy. Of course getting a few more wins is no guarantee it's on a 'proper' roll, you'll only know that if you persist - and if it's not a proper roll, it'll soon die again.

The run in my video started as usual, me putting in a tenner or so. That tenner ended up with a £20>£30 bank from what I recall, and one of the wins was a whistle for £20 xXx. So I thought I'd carry on. Very quickly the bank was up to £95, still from that initial tenner in (albeit I would have collected a little bit from the bank since it doesn't have a transfer option on the one I play).

A basic explanation of the run will be that it'll be more generous, give more frequent holds after nudges (let 'em spins), and then normally throw in a jackpot, and this often holds. If the jackpot doesn't hold I'd definitely carry on with at least another £10 in as it'll often still be happy enough to give other wins, and the jackpot will probably come back. Walk when you feel that there is no more life in it. Say £10 without a win.

I seem to recall the jackpot in this clip, from a hold after nudge, didn't hold - but it came back shortly after, and then a £10 XXX win that held twice for another £30, a few other bits. The total will have been about £250 profit. Last tenner or so I played through did bugger all, so I walked. 

As for T7s - they can be just as brutal. I own 2, and a bunch of other digital slots. The Betcom T7 and Vegas Strip can also be very brutal, but the Vegas Strip often does a triple jackpot (so £300 win), and the Betcom did a £100 + £300 top for £400 out on the Electrocoin OXO Reels game shortly after I got it. 

One thing I love with Concepts and other volatile slots - things like Ultra Hot - is I've genuinely lost count of how many quick hits I've had. Concept Magic 10 near me recently, £2 in, 3rd press was a hold for 7s for £100. Didn't hold, moved on. Loads of times I've put in a couple of quid and had a quick BAR win for £30, sometimes it's held.. Ultra Hot? I've forgotten how many times I've had a first or second press for a full screen for £80.

But - get involved with them and that's when things can get dangerous. The softer profile £100 jackpots can be bad at the wrong time - they typically save up for a £200 (jackpot + hold) and then normally say £30 before and £60 after. You should still get wins even in a bad mood, but might be looking a £30 in for £10 back to give you an idea. But some 3rd party software kits are absolutely lethal and if you want a softer game I'd steer well clear. I learned my lesson on that last month. Put an absolutely stupid amount into a £1 / £100 by a company I wasn't aware of. I assumed it would be the same, or a similar profile to what I was used to.

Turns out it's not, and it's a ROM designed for the B3 player - it saves up for an insane run. Put simply, I walked at £700 down, knowing it could have cost me another £700 to get that back. A hard decision to make, but ultimately a lesson learned. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by slotsmagic

[slotsmagic]

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but fancied trying something else tonight - Random Reel Magic by Concept, also on the £70 jackpot at 50p play. Lovely DX by @dad in the Legacy area. It'll alarm and require a reset on first boot due to no RAM, so it plays from a reset.

Different style of game - standard 3 win plan similar to Bar X 7even, but with a wild on the middle reel. Follows the 'no losing holds or nudges' formula used by most (if not all) of the Electrocoin '7s' games, unlike Random Gold which has 4 wins, no 'wild', and plenty of losing holds or nudges.

Anyway - from a reset it's playing a nice game. I've just stuck £250 in and come away with £225, and that was with me refusing wins and a few other random things.

Amazing that there's such a difference between the machines when both are played from a reset. This one is at bang on 90% now. Not sure what the machine is set to, but most Concept Random titles seem to be hardcoded at 90%, normally included in the artwork printed on the glass and so can't be varied.

Edited January 22, 2023 by slotsmagic

[WonkySausage]

13 minutes ago, slotsmagic said:

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but fancied trying something else tonight - Random Reel Magic by Concept, also on the £70 jackpot at 50p play. Lovely DX by @dad in the Legacy area. It'll alarm and require a reset on first boot due to no RAM, so it plays from a reset.

Different style of game - standard 3 win plan similar to Bar X 7even, but with a wild on the middle reel. Follows the 'no losing holds or nudges' formula used by most (if not all) of the Electrocoin '7s' games, unlike Random Gold which has 4 wins, no 'wild', and plenty of losing holds or nudges.

Anyway - from a reset it's playing a nice game. I've just stuck £250 in and come away with £225, and that was with me refusing wins and a few other random things.

Amazing that there's such a difference between the machines when both are played from a reset. This one is at bang on 90% now. Not sure what the machine is set to, but most Concept Random titles seem to be hardcoded at 90%, normally included in the artwork printed on the glass and so can't be varied.

usually just opening the service door will show you on the credits 7 seg displays what it's set to %age wise as it boots up  

Edited January 22, 2023 by WonkySausage