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You were skint but you were happy?


chriss82
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Has there been a machine that you have played in the past which may also be emulated that always left you skint back in the day but you didn’t mind losing to it because you enjoyed playing the game?

Mines was Crazy Cobra, not always bad but mostly had losses. Playing this just now and have only realised running two games side by side that if you go higher on one and lower on the other, that if it wants you to lose then that be your fate. Enjoyed playing this in the wild, even if it was on the machines terms! 

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16 minutes ago, MikeyMonster said:

Players dream crazy cobra..... along with just about every RED from £15 to £70.....

I know what you mean though.......a machine you would play even if your mate had just BATTERED it.....

Yeah exactly that. You always had that gut feeling sometimes that they were rigged and it took for running two emulations simultaneously to prove it lol

A good game always passed the time, even if you lost and still walked away happy enough 🤔

 

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32 minutes ago, serene02 said:

It’s just how compensated gambling machines work, particularly ones that present the player with a gamble.  It would be hard to keep to a set percentage if they offered a true 50/50 gamble.

J

I know what you mean as there would be occasions where it would be well out. How many times have you went higher or lower, lost then only to think to yourself if only you had chosen the other or collected what it was offering. Running two emulations has shown it wouldn’t have mattered and it would’ve been a loss whatever the decision.

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Don’t really play in the wild anymore, maybe the odd tenner in Wetherspoons if out for a meal. Just can’t get to grips with the new types of games as the boards look quite busy and it appears more cash is needed to get on the board. I stick to betting horses on a Saturday, £2.50 place-only singles. Can be a nice earner for small stakes if I manage to get two or three placed. 

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1 hour ago, serene02 said:

It’s just how compensated gambling machines work, particularly ones that present the player with a gamble.  It would be hard to keep to a set percentage if they offered a true 50/50 gamble.

J

Thats not strictly true - you can factor in true random 50/50 gambles ( or repeat chance for that matter - even more so if max repeats capped) into a fruit machines pay out profile..... it would just mean that the short and medium term variance would be crazy and only in the very long term would the machine keep to rtp.

For a £5 repeat chance - truly random.... the machine would just need to assign a mathematical value for the win.

Lets imagine a game capped at max of 4 repeats for £25......... and we win the fiver 32 times

No repeat - 50% chance - win value £5             

OR - for the time is repeats at least one 

one repeat - 50% chance - win value £10 

two repeats - 25% chance - win value £15

three repeats - 12.5% chance - win value £20

four repeats - 6.25% chance - win value £25.......

Out of every 32 Wins of this nature we would get

 16 x £5 (no repeat)

8 x £10 (one repeat)

4 x £15

2 x £20

2 x £25 (This is because as it cannot repeat again - you will get four repeats exactly as often as three repeats)

Total of £390 across the 32 lots of £5 wins with a random 50/50 repeat- so the machine would just need to assign a value of £12.19 (£390/32) to each of these wins in its RTP calculation.  In the very long run if the repeat is truly random (but capped to 4 repeats) this will give an accurate RTP.  Short term - it might pay four lots of £25 on the run - alternatively it might not repeat twenty times in a row..... in the long run these short time flukes would not matter.

The maths is complicated - but there is no reason now why machines could not offer a truly random hi-low gamble at every point - cos this could all be factored onto the RTP. This could of course be applied to an all or nothing gamble situation.

In fact - some of the compensated £100 video JP games do exactly this - as they say in the rules best practise is to gamble all wins.  This is because they have factored in the results of truly random gambles into the RTP - and straight collecting would lower this RTP. (Imagine a slightly different scenario above - where you can collect the fiver - or go for the repeat(s) and only get £2.50 win if it doesnt.... Then collecting the fiver every time would give you £180 from the 32 win sets, gambling would get you £270 (although on 16 of the 32 times you would be worse off - again - easy to build into RTP))

I also think this was a sneaky method used by some companies - in particular Barcrest - when the £500 JP's were introduced - especially those with a "pick me" feature, or a "four offers - collect or try again" mechanic  - to effectively lower the advertised RTP - as the outright gamble option would scare people onto taking a lower than RTP value win (Again - in my example - collecting the £5 every time - when if you gamble (with the £2.50 losing option) the expected value is £8.43) Scale my example up ten fold - and yes many people would collect £50 rather than gambling for £25 or £100 - even if its a truly random 50/50 shot.

Sunday night late night maths - over - back to the NFL........

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I was talking more older reel based AWP machines but I'd say the only truly 50/50 repeat chance on a fruit machine would be BGT Random Replay, it had a bagatelle type repeat chance governed purely by probability.  Any others in my opinion are heavilily controlled and dependant on the streak pot value or the actual %. 

J

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Hmm... I was convinced it would be a less volatile game - something slow with plenty of lower down wins - but in all honesty I think it was probably another Red Gaming machine.

I absolutely loved Red X back in the day. I think it was the excitement of it at the time - quite a fast paced game, excellent soundtrack, big streak potential. I could spend hours just wrapping it around. Really need to get one for the mancave at some point :)

I had a £5/10p one locally years later - I used to play it non-stop when I was in that pub. Didn't care if I won or lost.

I could probably say the same about other Red machines of the same type, but don't have anywhere near as much experience on them.

Edited by slotsmagic
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Currently owned digitals : T7 Encore, T7 Original, Astra iPub and Storm Street Casino.

MFME cabinets : Genesis cab DIY by No1Stoney, Interplay conversion and Vegas Strip conversion (both are works in progress!)

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Completely skint and happy? I don't know. I always wanted a bit in backup or reserved for drinks. I suppose losing the gambling pot and happy is more apt.

I used to visit a pub in Wales near a relative's house. They had a Cops n Robbers on 10p 5 quid, so I'd just walk to the separate bar area where it was, row money in, and chat to the barman for a good hour or two on a quiet day. Needed some in reserve to keep my drinks flowing of course! In Japan now I would say 95% of the time I lose all my pot I'm happy and well entertained. The other 5% would be due to all the machines being played or a seriously boring session, which is very rare. Any time I met up with good friends for a pub crawl was another example. I would just play whatever without a care in the world; the machines were an addition to the day and/or night and whatever happened happened. My main regret was self-assessing myself as too drunk to play a couple things and running with an early Collect tbh. Some of the machines we had in clubs round my way in university.... I left a fortune sitting there...!

I'd say up til now my most recent "skint and unhappy" session would be back in 2018. I lost on everything in fairly cold blood, went to my local standing bar and ordered a beer. Upon taking the first sip a f**king horsefly came in, landed on my arm, and bit me for NO reason at all. I then spilled my beer.

Edited by PekoJPF
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Ultimately, you are always going to be skint if you are a gambler, unless you are extremely disciplined or have some scam on the go.

I need that buzz to make me feel alive, I ended up finding new addictions, cheaper and less destructive thrills that give me that dopemine hit.  I can honestly say that I'm so much better off financially, but mostly I'm better mentally ;).

J

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3 hours ago, serene02 said:

I was talking more older reel based AWP machines but I'd say the only truly 50/50 repeat chance on a fruit machine would be BGT Random Replay, it had a bagatelle type repeat chance governed purely by probability.  Any others in my opinion are heavilily controlled and dependant on the streak pot value or the actual %. 

J

I get that - I just meant that you can program in a truly random gamble or repeat chance into a compensated machine.  There is the way i have desribed, but also for a compensted machine - it could simply be a random gamble or repeat - and if it gets ahead of %... just stop paying anything to get back on track.

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3 hours ago, PekoJPF said:

Completely skint and happy? I don't know. I always wanted a bit in backup or reserved for drinks. I suppose losing the gambling pot and happy is more apt.

I used to visit a pub in Wales near a relative's house. They had a Cops n Robbers on 10p 5 quid, so I'd just walk to the separate bar area where it was, row money in, and chat to the barman for a good hour or two on a quiet day. Needed some in reserve to keep my drinks flowing of course! In Japan now I would say 95% of the time I lose all my pot I'm happy and well entertained. The other 5% would be due to all the machines being played or a seriously boring session, which is very rare. Any time I met up with good friends for a pub crawl was another example. I would just play whatever without a care in the world; the machines were an addition to the day and/or night and whatever happened happened. My main regret was self-assessing myself as too drunk to play a couple things and running with an early Collect tbh. Some of the machines we had in clubs round my way in university.... I left a fortune sitting there...!

I'd say up til now my most recent "skint and unhappy" session would be back in 2018. I lost on everything in fairly cold blood, went to my local standing bar and ordered a beer. Upon taking the first sip a f**king horsefly came in, landed on my arm, and bit me for NO reason at all. I then spilled my beer.

I would love to see £5 (or even £10) proper machines in pubs - buy a pint and have a play lose a few or win a couple of quid. Would suit me down to the ground!

I'm a sucker for the 10p £5 games they have on one of the quiz cabinets.

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I get the reasons why the industry doesn’t want to move to putting older lower jps in pubs etc but i agree, buy your pint them have a play on a donkey Kong or a pinball wizard or cluedo or each way nudger what’s not to like!! Maybe there should be (in light of the current climate) sone form of reduced duty for pubs that buy their own lower jp machines. Or maybe there already is. Pretty sure it would be popular generally, but like I said (and as many here have articulated very well across the forums) the industry is unlikely to shift that way. Maybe the continued success of retro arcades will be evidence enough that it’s a good thing. 

I almost feel like glueing my face to the m25 and waving a “bring back dels millions” flag. Almost…..

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8 minutes ago, nails said:

when the £500s first came out i was mesmerised by cashino 500. once i got my first jackpot from the roulette feature, i was hooked.

I remember something similar. It was at southwaite services on the m6 on my way back from Edinburgh. It didn’t pay it all, did 200 in coins then call manager message. They wouldn’t change the ones, and gave me 300 in Scottish notes…. 🙂

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4 minutes ago, Sarkymark77 said:

I get the reasons why the industry doesn’t want to move to putting older lower jps in pubs etc but i agree, buy your pint them have a play on a donkey Kong or a pinball wizard or cluedo or each way nudger what’s not to like!! Maybe there should be (in light of the current climate) sone form of reduced duty for pubs that buy their own lower jp machines. Or maybe there already is. Pretty sure it would be popular generally, but like I said (and as many here have articulated very well across the forums) the industry is unlikely to shift that way. Maybe the continued success of retro arcades will be evidence enough that it’s a good thing. 

I almost feel like glueing my face to the m25 and waving a “bring back dels millions” flag. Almost…..

Well... its not impossible.... there are a number of pubs bringing back Retro arcade games like Time Crisis..... it only takes one p;ace to try it as a success.......

Doesnt even have to be anything methodable either - in fact - could go a step further and have a load of £6 JP games - usuing 20p's instead of tokens.....

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On 13/11/2022 at 23:23, MikeyMonster said:

Players dream crazy cobra..... along with just about every RED from £15 to £70.....

I know what you mean though.......a machine you would play even if your mate had just BATTERED it.....

I always did well off of Red's, didn't know any emptiers, but I just seemed to know when to play and when not to play. Can't remember ever getting truly stung by one.

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1 hour ago, Dawlish09 said:

I always did well off of Red's, didn't know any emptiers, but I just seemed to know when to play and when not to play. Can't remember ever getting truly stung by one.

Same, back in the day at least. Out here in the sticks I don't think anyone was particularly clued up on them, nobody seemed willing to push the gambles, or knew the feature values.

Not so relevant now, as I've found with my £70 Balti Towers. The feature values are massively out of kilter. Most of the top features, even on red (upgraded) seem to be capped at £15 with the odd one that might have £25 potential - doesn't help that the red 7s only pay £25. You basically have to force the top out. I've put mine on 98% for shits and giggles and it's basically £80 in for £70 out, apart from the odd time it does a £105 top.

On the earlier Reds, even if you weren't forcing the top out, several of the upgraded features were jackpot capable. Just felt like it had more 'value' to be extracted with knowledge.

Edited by slotsmagic
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2 hours ago, slotsmagic said:

Same, back in the day at least. Out here in the sticks I don't think anyone was particularly clued up on them, nobody seemed willing to push the gambles, or knew the feature values.

Not so relevant now, as I've found with my £70 Balti Towers. The feature values are massively out of kilter. Most of the top features, even on red (upgraded) seem to be capped at £15 with the odd one that might have £25 potential - doesn't help that the red 7s only pay £25. You basically have to force the top out. I've put mine on 98% for shits and giggles and it's basically £80 in for £70 out, apart from the odd time it does a £105 top.

On the earlier Reds, even if you weren't forcing the top out, several of the upgraded features were jackpot capable. Just felt like it had more 'value' to be extracted with knowledge.

I never played beyond the £25 variants, should imagine higher jackpots kind of screwed the game and streak on them. Definately were great with red features, although win series I took no matter what as more often than not was decent, funnily enough it didn't mind certain features being taken while going through an enhanced state of play. could get insane runs on the £5 variants also.

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