johnparker007 Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) I have a potential long term plan for accurate, high quality, efficient (to render on modest PCs), scalable 3d models of the fruit machine cabinets... It will be a case of: - waiting for something like the used iPhone 12 Pro to come down in price (it has a lidar scanner) - finding private owners/retro fruit machine arcade owners willing to let me come out and 'scan' their machines - sourcing a good freelance 3d artist from an affordable locale (India etc), to build a working relationship with - funds for the above Lidar model scanning is really coming along - the idea is I use it to capture full 3d reference models for the artist to use along with photos for textures and support maps. Here's some examples (from a lidar iPhone): These models can be viewed in interactive 3d here: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/day-16-camel-from-edmonds-playground-c1d13305fc9d488084031114ec5e1a6a https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/day-35-frozen-mini-d799169f7ffe4faf87d658f6e68e0e25 https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/day-45-orange-chair-de50a84e21ec4b4893d191401c391f3b This is long term, to replace the 'placeholder' cabinets I've made so far. For upcoming cabinets (genesis etc), I will be doing faster mods of the existing Eclipse etc that will look pretty generic for our interim use, but be relatively quick to make (no point in spending much valuable time when they'll be replaced with high end models). They'll be fine for playing the newer (i.e. older!) machines on in the meantime. This workflow: Find friendly owners -> go out with the iPhone 12 and scan their machines -> pass over to affordable freelance 3d artist along with high quality photos, so they can create highly accurate 3d models ... seems like it'll be a realistic way to get highly accurate, future-proof (still high quality in 10-20 years, but scalable down for hardware now) 3d models. Probably be a year or two, when those phones are cheaper, and I've got a lot of the mountain of programming out of the the way first! But nice to have a proper plan for this asset issue, I've been thinking about this approach for a while Edited October 19, 2021 by johnparker007 5 [ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net | Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e | Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo [ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665 [ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz [ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch [ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis [ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopaholic Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 That's a great long-term goal for the project John and if it comes to fruition it will be amazing to see, but I have to be honest that the arcade as it is now is fantastic, especially the Vogue cabinets with their pink JPM logo on them, that I spent so long stood in front of back in the day! Getting some more cabs in the arcade using your current build model would be more than good enough, but it's fascinating to be aware of your longer term aspirations too 2 Fruit machine emulation content from the artist previously known as Degsy Degworth and the odd new thing here and there too - https://www.youtube.com/c/DegsyDegworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davep180 Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 6 hours ago, johnparker007 said: finding private owners/retro fruit machine arcade owners willing to let me come out and 'scan' their machines If you need a Barcrest Horizon Cab and you can get to Bristol, you can scan my Happy Campers machine mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serene02 Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 @davep180 If you can take some decent images side profile front and back of machine, that would be valuable as resources J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsy Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, serene02 said: @davep180 If you can take some decent images side profile front and back of machine, that would be valuable as resources J Maybe with some sort of ruler/markings for exact scale and dimensions?!? Just trying to help living the dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serene02 Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 Yeah some measured dimensions would be ideal but I think John has software that can determine scale? J 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsy Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 minute ago, serene02 said: Yeah some measured dimensions would be ideal but I think John has software that can determine scale? J Never ceases to amaze me the stuff going on in and around that project!! Tracing paper is about my forte haha!! living the dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serene02 Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 Literally anyone who uses AS and has access to fruit machines should think about supplying those valuable resources. John P is doing all he can but he's pretty much doing it all single-handed. If anyone has an MPU4 or MPU5 based machine in Grimsby/Cleethorpes area I can pop and take photos no problem whatsoever. I have access to a few arcades here but they won't allow me to pull out any machines to photograph, I could ask but it would sound like an odd request J 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnparker007 Posted October 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 I may be on the hunt for photos soon, but I'm putting a little thought into this Lidar scanning. I'm wary of doing work 'twice' on a big project... so while my initial thought was to hand-craft more basic models, that'd be roughly to scale - what I'm thinking now is hopping straight to the Lidar -> Artist workflow. As the results will be insanely accurate and high quality - with the right artist who's into that technical style of 3d tracing. Just had a look - you can actually hire the iPhone 12 Pro (the earliest, so cheapest model with Lidar). £114 for a couple of days which doesn't seem that crazy really. If I could perhaps find someone with a quite a few different popular machine cabinets, I could go on a scanning mission... I guess it depends if there's a retro arcade owner or home collector with a decent sized varied collection, who's up for me coming round and scanning up all their stuff haha! In the interim, if I get to the stage where I can safely continue scaling up - I was just going to make very quick 'placeholders' by scaling the Eclipse, and the MPU4 - will be fine to house older games like rolltop/genesis two glass games as a stopgap. 2 [ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net | Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e | Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo [ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665 [ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz [ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch [ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis [ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsy Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, johnparker007 said: I may be on the hunt for photos soon, but I'm putting a little thought into this Lidar scanning. I'm wary of doing work 'twice' on a big project... so while my initial thought was to hand-craft more basic models, that'd be roughly to scale - what I'm thinking now is hopping straight to the Lidar -> Artist workflow. As the results will be insanely accurate and high quality - with the right artist who's into that technical style of 3d tracing. Just had a look - you can actually hire the iPhone 12 Pro (the earliest, so cheapest model with Lidar). £114 for a couple of days which doesn't seem that crazy really. If I could perhaps find someone with a quite a few different popular machine cabinets, I could go on a scanning mission... I guess it depends if there's a retro arcade owner or home collector with a decent sized varied collection, who's up for me coming round and scanning up all their stuff haha! In the interim, if I get to the stage where I can safely continue scaling up - I was just going to make very quick 'placeholders' by scaling the Eclipse, and the MPU4 - will be fine to house older games like rolltop/genesis two glass games as a stopgap. If you want to rent a iPhone 12 you can do it cheaper for longer on music magpie, here’s a screenshot check it yourself for suitability… living the dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnparker007 Posted October 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, woodsy said: If you want to rent a iPhone 12 you can do it cheaper for longer on music magpie, here’s a screenshot check it yourself for suitability… Thanks man, those prices are a fixed rental term of a year though... (12x monthly payments minimum). I may also think about buying one used, then reselling it used after the scans. There's no rush (as prices will slowly fall) since I'll be using simple placeholder models for the next rounds of new machines, by rescaling Eclipses etc. Just won't be spending ages painstakingly making crude models... since I know I have far superior models in the pipeline. Least overall work for best overall results (hopefully!) [ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net | Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e | Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo [ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665 [ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz [ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch [ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis [ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsy Posted October 19, 2021 Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, johnparker007 said: Thanks man, those prices are a fixed rental term of a year though... (12x monthly payments minimum). I may also think about buying one used, then reselling it used after the scans. There's no rush (as prices will slowly fall) since I'll be using simple placeholder models for the next rounds of new machines, by rescaling Eclipses etc. Just won't be spending ages painstakingly making crude models... since I know I have far superior models in the pipeline. Least overall work for best overall results (hopefully!) personally for the meantime id be happy with any game in any cabinet, just to have them you see. but yes i appreciate fully your desires for beauty living the dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnparker007 Posted October 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2021 Well when it's time to be able to put more new games in, they'll be going in temporary rescaled Eclipses - they'll not look too bad, just a bit unfamiliar 1 [ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net | Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e | Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo [ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665 [ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz [ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch [ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis [ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davep180 Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 23 hours ago, serene02 said: If you can take some decent images side profile front and back of machine, that would be valuable as resources 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serene02 Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 Nice one Dave J 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsy Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 35 minutes ago, serene02 said: Nice one Dave J Dartboard, flat screen, fruity.. beginnings of a man cave perhaps? 1 living the dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davep180 Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 1 hour ago, woodsy said: 2 hours ago, serene02 said: Nice one Dave J Dartboard, flat screen, fruity.. beginnings of a man cave perhaps? No worries. As soon as I get that feckin water tank out of the spare room I will a: get better pictures and more measurements b: hopefully get the man cave more sorted P.S If anyone knows of a qualified plumber/electrician that can install Mixergy tanks thats willing to travel to Bristol, I have money waiting! I can then get the mfme/arcade/quiz/console cab back into the spare room! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnparker007 Posted October 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 Thanks for the pictures and measurements @davep180 1 [ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net | Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e | Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo [ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665 [ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz [ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch [ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis [ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davep180 Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 Just now, johnparker007 said: Thanks for the pictures and measurements No worries JP. Like I said. When I get the room back I can take as many pictures you like. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnparker007 Posted October 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 26 minutes ago, davep180 said: No worries JP. Like I said. When I get the room back I can take as many pictures you like. Thanks man I'm not planning on making any cab models by hand, at least in the short term (I'm just going to hack up the Eclipse for placeholder models, pending the Lidar->Artist models plan) so honestly no rush. Good luck getting your gameroom/mancave sorted! 1 [ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net | Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e | Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo [ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665 [ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz [ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch [ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis [ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREDDIE Posted October 29, 2021 Report Share Posted October 29, 2021 Hi @johnparker007since reading your initial post on this I downloaded an app on my iphone 13 to try out the Lidar feature. I knew the phone had it but I'd not used it for 3D models. I downloaded a free app on the apple store (suitably named "3D scanner app") and was pretty impressed by the modeling ability but was unable to get close to the quality you provided in this thread and wonder if they are highly edited. I've got a couple of arcade machine at home so could scan one as an example but I wondered if you'd already experimented with the best apps and way to capture the data with an iphone? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnparker007 Posted October 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2021 From what I read up on it, there's quite a bit of technique to it - specific apps for specific scan distances, specific scan distances for specific surface types/model scales, optimal barely overlapping single pass scanning technique to avoid holes/over-fitting, etc. It's sadly not at the stage yet where you just download any app, and go get great scans, you need to really get into the weeds of various aspects of the process to get good scans of your general target object (in our case arcade machines). (Also the texture-mapping aspect would be irrelevant to my approach, I'm just after the data for building a point cloud for an artist to use as an accurate support shell for their model along with supporting photograph resources). I have a couple of pinball machines and a Mortal Kombat II cabinet here in the house, so I was planning to do the same, and see if I could build a dimensionally accurate rough 'shell' with some perseverance (so the shell in 3DS Max consistently matches perfectly the measurements I take from the machines in reality). I wouldn't be using the initial scan as an actual model the end user would see though... it's purely for point data to help the artist with an accurate shell... this stuff is long term goals though, am waiting to see how the market unfolds, it may be there's a superior android lidar phone available in a year or so, iphones always have such a hefty price tag! 2 [ Arcade Simulator ] Pre-alpha installer: http://arcadesimulator.net | Known Issues: https://tinyurl.com/yz4uom2e | Donation info: https://tinyurl.com/yzvgl4xo [ Community Drive ] The drive: http://tinyurl.com/yckze665 [ Fruit Machine Database ] Initial google sheets (WIP): https://tinyurl.com/2c5znxzz [ MFME Launch ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/MFMELaunch [ Oasis ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/Oasis [ Sound ROM Editor ] Source code: https://github.com/johnparker007/SoundRomEditor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREDDIE Posted October 30, 2021 Report Share Posted October 30, 2021 7 hours ago, johnparker007 said: From what I read up on it, there's quite a bit of technique to it - specific apps for specific scan distances, specific scan distances for specific surface types/model scales, optimal barely overlapping single pass scanning technique to avoid holes/over-fitting, etc. It's sadly not at the stage yet where you just download any app, and go get great scans, you need to really get into the weeds of various aspects of the process to get good scans of your general target object (in our case arcade machines). (Also the texture-mapping aspect would be irrelevant to my approach, I'm just after the data for building a point cloud for an artist to use as an accurate support shell for their model along with supporting photograph resources). I have a couple of pinball machines and a Mortal Kombat II cabinet here in the house, so I was planning to do the same, and see if I could build a dimensionally accurate rough 'shell' with some perseverance (so the shell in 3DS Max consistently matches perfectly the measurements I take from the machines in reality). I wouldn't be using the initial scan as an actual model the end user would see though... it's purely for point data to help the artist with an accurate shell... this stuff is long term goals though, am waiting to see how the market unfolds, it may be there's a superior android lidar phone available in a year or so, iphones always have such a hefty price tag! Very interesting, thank you for the detailed explanation, that makes a lot of sense. It's a very exciting area of development and literally adds a new dimension to all of this... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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