YouTube Emulation Extravaganza

[Dougsta]

Yeah it looks like Barcrest just gave up and did the bluntest fix possible. I guess they thought it would only ever be seen by players they didn't want, so sod it! They were already well past their peak by this point, and Bellfruit were eating up market share with DOND. Mistakes like the ones on Alien must really have cost them.

I've seen Red Alert do 12 -> 12 before and lose for Fireman's Lift. This was on the very final chip, I think.

Rich Geezer also did 12 -> 12 when gambling for the Reel Stop feature, which was guaranteed jackpot.

[woodsy]

32 minutes ago, logopolis said:

That was P3 Alien where you played it up the side for the jackpot. The first program was an empty where you hit the7 in the window on the low down feature. The second program you could go lower than 4 before the corner even with a step and it will win to a 3. Then step to the 12 for the jackpot.

Wouldn’t it be nice to have all the roms to do these

[logopolis]

11 minutes ago, woodsy said:

Wouldn’t it be nice to have all the roms to do these

Definitely would. There is a second set but it doesn't work in the emulator. Maybe because it's MPU6.

[Chopaholic]

I can't think of any that are worse than these bloody things.

 

[WonkySausage]

@Chopaholic timing always impeccable  gives me something watch a little bit later whilst enjoying Saturday night take away.. I did watch the first 10 mins or so already, I notice you had the same issue as me with Alice in Wonderlands meters (and i think all Gen 1 Reflexes are the same?) ... a reset of the game, or opening the service door will update the meters  

Edited October 16, 2021 by WonkySausage

[woodsy]

I’ve nowhere near the same amount of play time as you (luckily it seems) but I thought that cash or bust cash pot wouldn’t affect the main game when I did win the few times I did. Cash pot of the cash or bust for £100 and the main game still staying open for mega deal game but it has to be half happy to begin with as you say and tbh in agree wholeheartedly that they’re just awful representations of a once enjoyable time. After watching though have to say it might of been a betcom never knew the difference

Edited October 16, 2021 by woodsy

[woodsy]

2 hours ago, Chopaholic said:

I can't think of any that are worse than these bloody things.

 

And another thought, opinion, delusion; perhaps this is their attempt at fair gaming, as in you can get a go all the way board at random by just being lucky and walking onto a g a t w board as I have one or twice, their idea is play it on the odd occasion and get a deal board etc win lose £5/10 ish and walk away, like a casual player, once in a while to meet percentages it throws in a g a t w board to the lucky chance player and it punishes the force type player in an attempt to change the way fruit machines pay and play going forward?!? Just a idea?!

Edited October 16, 2021 by woodsy

[Chopaholic]

1 hour ago, woodsy said:

And another thought, opinion, delusion; perhaps this is their attempt at fair gaming, as in you can get a go all the way board at random by just being lucky and walking onto a g a t w board as I have one or twice, their idea is play it on the odd occasion and get a deal board etc win lose £5/10 ish and walk away, like a casual player, once in a while to meet percentages it throws in a g a t w board to the lucky chance player and it punishes the force type player in an attempt to change the way fruit machines pay and play going forward?!? Just a idea?!

There's certainly an argument that can be made in that direction @woodsy - that Reflex have actually managed to make what could almost be described as a 'fair' compensated machine. As far as I'm aware, these were never vulnerable to any kind of manipulation or methods, and it seems to me can defer meeting RTP for an extended period of time to drop in GATW boards pretty much at random on anyone who walks up to them.

But then of course you're back to the fact that these are essentially £25 jackpot machines, advertising a £100 jackpot, and they can be legally set as low as 70% RTP, whilst also being able to move around their RTP target however they see fit.

The £100 jackpot is simply far too big for an AWP, as was £70, £35 and £25, £15 was arguably pushing it - so whichever way the game gets sliced up it ends up being an awful proposition for the 'end user' as it were.

[woodsy]

10 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

There's certainly an argument that can be made in that direction @woodsy - that Reflex have actually managed to make what could almost be described as a 'fair' compensated machine. As far as I'm aware, these were never vulnerable to any kind of manipulation or methods, and it seems to me can defer meeting RTP for an extended period of time to drop in GATW boards pretty much at random on anyone who walks up to them.

But then of course you're back to the fact that these are essentially £25 jackpot machines, advertising a £100 jackpot, and they can be legally set as low as 70% RTP, whilst also being able to move around their RTP target however they see fit.

The £100 jackpot is simply far too big for an AWP, as was £70, £35 and £25, £15 was arguably pushing it - so whichever way the game gets sliced up it ends up being an awful proposition for the 'end user' as it were.

Totally agree, £25 was a push to being sensible but with inflation it was appropriate maybe, by the£10-15 era was great and also entertaining, the real issue for me is the stakes per play, that’s just disgusting, it takes away the enjoyment and sensibility of such a thing existed. I done my utter balls as much as I made profits later on my path but at least when they were £10-15 and £5, or £6/8 tokens the days spent losing were actually days not minutes, win or lose there was so much entertainment and life that went alongside being a player, now it’s over in minutes, repeating the same thing on a different clone with no enjoyment or social aspects, I meet loads of people and women out drinking for free gambling till the clubs shut and on the pier all day. It’s all gone like Facebook has for kids, no adventure, no meeting up down the park having a random life of fun, instead it’s indoors at a screen alone, or worse. As bad as my addiction left me here and there, I can honestly say I had a great laugh and sex life along the way, now I emulate my games and don’t socialise or drink for free having adventures etc. 

[Boulderdash]

18 hours ago, Chopaholic said:

I can't think of any that are worse than these bloody things.

 

The fact that in multiple occasions you got involved with these pieces of shit and on multiple occasions walked away with a three-figure loss just shows the addiction never leaves us. 

If you stab yourself with a knife it hurts and your brain remembers to never do that again. But somehow, even through you know it's going to hurt if you try to force a jackpot out of the Gen 2 reflexes, we still do it. 

[Chopaholic]

1 hour ago, Boulderdash said:

The fact that in multiple occasions you got involved with these pieces of shit and on multiple occasions walked away with a three-figure loss just shows the addiction never leaves us. 

If you stab yourself with a knife it hurts and your brain remembers to never do that again. But somehow, even through you know it's going to hurt if you try to force a jackpot out of the Gen 2 reflexes, we still do it. 

I know, I'd like to say 'it's not addiction' but what other explanation is there for it, other than some vestigial remains of the bad old addict?

In fairness to myself I have just completely ignored Reflexes since the four stories I tell in the video, not that I come across fruit machines very often these days but if it's a Reflex it doesn't get a penny off me.

[woodsy]

4 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

I know, I'd like to say 'it's not addiction' but what other explanation is there for it, other than some vestigial remains of the bad old addict?

In fairness to myself I have just completely ignored Reflexes since the four stories I tell in the video, not that I come across fruit machines very often these days but if it's a Reflex it doesn't get a penny off me.

It’s the same story for so many of us I feel safe in saying, alcohol - lowered risk awareness or indeed give a shitness leading to playing whatever available in the pub for a punt. My worst endeavours would always be influenced by booze!! In fact there’s probably an equation somewhere fruit machines x beer x time x boredom = x amount losses haha

[Boulderdash]

The thing with these machines is they are created to actually be much closer to an old AWP because a lot of people were complaining about fruit machines in pubs just being a casino.

And if you play it at 25p play and understand the jackpot you are playing for is really £25, you can actually have a fair bit of amusement.

If you come across one where someone has done their bollocks you might even fluke a Jackpot from cash or bust. Download @vectra666's 'Trails of the unexpected' which is absolutely gagging and play on 25p a go and you'll see what I mean. 

But trying to force one from cold is a very stupid idea. 

[woodsy]

37 minutes ago, Boulderdash said:

The thing with these machines is they are created to actually be much closer to an old AWP because a lot of people were complaining about fruit machines in pubs just being a casino.

And if you play it at 25p play and understand the jackpot you are playing for is really £25, you can actually have a fair bit of amusement.

If you come across one where someone has done their bollocks you might even fluke a Jackpot from cash or bust. Download @vectra666's 'Trails of the unexpected' which is absolutely gagging and play on 25p a go and you'll see what I mean. 

But trying to force one from cold is a very stupid idea. 

Agree wholeheartedly, as I said I have some sway towards it being the epitome of what they always wanted a machine to be, fair play for casuals and bad for players!! However I’ve just had a really interesting thought.. now this may be gamblers fallacy but years back when I’d be playing a big brother and it was taking the piss a bit, I’d deliberately wait for it to go into attract mode with no credits left for a good few mins, after that it’d usually do a 4 or 3 knockout start board instead of the 1/2 it has been doing h for a while (I admit possible fallacy) however watching the way the reflexes don’t update the meters until reloaded gives me the same ish idea, as in when playing it as chops did the machine doesn’t update the meters often enough to force the g a t w board etc but if it was reset every tenner instead perhaps the meters would be more aware of the need to payout!!? Hope you get my thinking there!! As I also said it’s the random lucky punter who walks on to a g a t w board as I have and I’m sure you have albeit not on the new reflexes as I don’t we don’t play them?!? But the theory is true that they do one at random and if you chase it, you’ll lose. Find it by luck and it’sa god win keeping the casual drinker spreading enough word of mouth to keep the people playing it.. perhaps my real or foolish belief that stopping playing it and letting it go into attract mode a few times then trying it again for a bit before doing the same thing again would make a difference to the meters and speed of the g a t w board?!? It’s all crazy madness on my part maybe but as we know the tried and tested process ends as chops has demonstrated is it not at least a idea to test in the emulator for no financial nightmares!! And even more sensibly how about deliberately updating the meters more often using the emulator to simulate the change in people playing over time, I’m sure you said they only update the meters on a reset or door opening?! Perhaps that’s the same in the wild and why they pay as they do.. please feel free to ridicule me here haha 

Edited October 17, 2021 by woodsy

[Boulderdash]

9 hours ago, woodsy said:

Agree wholeheartedly, as I said I have some sway towards it being the epitome of what they always wanted a machine to be, fair play for casuals and bad for players!!  

Can @slasheror anyone else here comment as to which does better cashbox wise - is it a reflex that no player will touch or a DOND with lots of player interest? 

I wouldn't mind betting it's the DOND. 

I also expect the random digitals take far more money than both combined. 

[wearecity]

I can't comment on anything posted since the video.

All I can say is, that I wish when FME was in it's early years, that I was more interested in seeing older machines emulated, than the latest Scorpion 4 and MPU5 machines of the time.

One day these, will be old machines, with some memories for people, but it won't make them any more entertaining.

[slasher]

10 hours ago, Boulderdash said:

Can @slasheror anyone else here comment as to which does better cashbox wise - is it a reflex that no player will touch or a DOND with lots of player interest? 

I wouldn't mind betting it's the DOND. 

I also expect the random digitals take far more money than both combined. 

Depends on the unit really. Stuff like perfect deals probably wouldn't take loads if there were a lot about as people become aware that they always lose on it, but cos there's only a few, players tend to take them on from dead for old times sake. 

Randoms certainly take a lot more which baffles me how anyone could want to sit inserting money to just press start, have the "reels" spin for 5 seconds or whatever it is, game over, with rare features that pay shite, etc.

TBO did well as it was the first really rigged game where you couldn't really go after a jackpot which threw a lot off to start with.

[Boulderdash]

I notice by the way @Chopaholicthat when it takes a credit to tell you 'that's your lot' it doesn't actually take a credit for the next game. 

[Boulderdash]

On 18/10/2021 at 08:50, slasher said:

Depends on the unit really. Stuff like perfect deals probably wouldn't take loads if there were a lot about as people become aware that they always lose on it, but cos there's only a few, players tend to take them on from dead for old times sake. 

Randoms certainly take a lot more which baffles me how anyone could want to sit inserting money to just press start, have the "reels" spin for 5 seconds or whatever it is, game over, with rare features that pay shite, etc.

TBO did well as it was the first really rigged game where you couldn't really go after a jackpot which threw a lot off to start with.

The reason people will play randoms is the fact you can win decent money in minutes and don't need to care about a player destroying the machine. 

For example, I popped in the pub at lunchtime and stuck a tenner in Robin Hood. First few quid at 50p yielded a few small wins but seemed fairly pointless, so I upped to £1 spins. Second game got a whole load of kings for £44, so I collected a £48 bank and walked with a nice little profit. 

That doesn't happen on a reflex. And if you forced a betcom you're lucky these days to make more than £20 profit, even if it goes for £150. 

These machines are deliberately shit as there was always a clear strategy to get compensated games out of pubs and turn them into mini casinos. 

They were supposed to have increased the category C jackpot in 2017 but because of the ongoing arguments about FOBTs the triennial review was punted into the long grass. Both bacta and the pub industry have called for a maximum stake of £2 and a maximum prize of £150. Imagine how much people will stuff into a pub random when they can spin in £150 in seconds no matter what previous play it's had!

But really they're just slowly positioning the business to get FOBTs into pubs. AWPs stopped being such around the £15/£25 jackpot era. 

[Chopaholic]

I've covered this subject in a couple of videos.

Personally I'm not in favour of any real gambling devices being in pubs, be they random or compensated, but random is certainly fairer.

The original AWP concept, small stakes and small jackpots I could get more onboard with, if the industry had ever demonstrated it was capable of making machines that weren't completely fuckable by those 'in the know'.

Randoms have done really over here, and they've essentially killed the traditional fruit machine off, people understand random, and whilst they might not understand the ins and outs of compensated machines, they certainly came to understand that there was never a penny to be won on them for the vast majority of people.

 

[Boulderdash]

21 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

I've covered this subject in a couple of videos.

Personally I'm not in favour of any real gambling devices being in pubs, be they random or compensated, but random is certainly fairer.

The original AWP concept, small stakes and small jackpots I could get more onboard with, if the industry had ever demonstrated it was capable of making machines that weren't completely fuckable by those 'in the know'.

Randoms have done really over here, and they've essentially killed the traditional fruit machine off, people understand random, and whilst they might not understand the ins and outs of compensated machines, they certainly came to understand that there was never a penny to be won on them for the vast majority of people.

 

Like you say, it's far too easy to lose £350+ on these things in no time at all. They shouldn't exist anywhere unregulated, especially where people will be drunk. 

[Chopaholic]

JPM's Arcadia, running the P9 ROMs (non-emptiable) which are the earliest ones we have.

Thanks to @vectra666 and @Tommy c  for the layouts featured

 

 

[woodsy]

17 minutes ago, Chopaholic said:

JPM's Arcadia, running the P9 ROMs (non-emptiable) which are the earliest ones we have.

Thanks to @vectra666 and @Tommy c  for the layouts featured

 

 

Ah man that first 2 nudges was the ten set!! Bring the reels down a little further you’d of seen it, nudge the jp 1 down and leave the blue on the line if it hold hold reels 1/2 for free ten quid

[woodsy]

sorry didn't think of this in time.. only came to me as doing reel test on sparta.. sorry i know its too late..

[Dougsta]

Is it true or was it urban myth that if you stopped no numbers on Shoot Em Up, you'd get an instant jackpot? And also wasn't it possible to get 3 red bars too?

Edited October 23, 2021 by Dougsta