Fme Resource Requests ?

[Tommy c]

Ok sorry if I should post this here, but I feel like a shit posting at the mecca as not all members are in the same catergory. 

On numerous occasions I've sent PMS to members on there requesting pics of their games if the have time. PMS have either been ignored, or read with no reply. Now this is fare enough some cant be arsed with the myther. Thing is a great bunch of these ignorant members have recieved help and software from the fme scene, yet when we ask for a little.help back we get the middle finger.

I'm posting this to burn off some frustration over this matter for some months now, getting to the point I think bollocks to it. 

[Mavroz]

Unfortunately that is one of the main reasons I gave up on real machines and repairs. I would do anything for pretty much anyone and help them out where I could from board repairs, helping with software and even sending spare parts at my own cost.

Now don't get me wrong, there are some great people in the fruit machine collectors community that would do the exact same, will help as much as possible.

The problem is these people are a very small percentage of the community. The remainder are those you help out and when you need their help with a spare etc they have it but it is mysteriously buried at the back of the garage under every other possession they have and will take some time to dig out. Fair enough. A few weeks pass by so I ask again but the person had been at work 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. Bear in mind said people such as this have had as much help and support when they need it to get their own machines running which they have all the time in the world to work on. Another week or so goes by and a PM arrives, sorry but the part I thought I had for you has been eaten by the dog etc etc etc.

I am sure many of you know the type of people I have mentioned and have heard similar stories to this.

Anyway, that is why I pretty much quit real machines and found another hobby to spend time on, oh and a little on Mfme. Happened way too often and sure enough in the end, it grinds you down.

You see examples everywhere unfortunately and it makes you get the same way too, it really does.

[Reg]

Gary once had a famous saying about these kind of behaviours ( @Gary - do you recall ? ).

This behaviour also used to royally piss Chris off - the things he had done for people and when he asked for something radio silence- even to the point of being the exact same people he had helped in the past.

I think it’s human nature ( take, take and take ) and then what, wait ?  You want something from me, sorry mate mother in law In Hospital, gotta take the fish to the vets and 73 people are off sick at work and I have to cover for 45 of them.  Nah, going to be a busy period until you forget about want you need.  Tell you what, give me a shout after you’ve forgotten or given up - I will see if I am free. By the way, before you go, any update on the emulator - I would like…

…I’ll be disappointed if you stop but understand the feeling.  That being said, I do believe people here very much value your work so thanks for all you have done.

[davep180]

2 hours ago, Reg said:

That being said, I do believe people here very much value your work so thanks for all you have done.

I value the work everyone puts in here, so thanks very much. The only thing I have done resource wise was pass on some pics of my Happy Campers machine, but without people helping out, where would we be?

[vectra666]

8 minutes ago, davep180 said:

I value the work everyone puts in here, so thanks very much. The only thing I have done resource wise was pass on some pics of my Happy Campers machine, but without people helping out, where would we be?

Every little helps although you won’t get club cards points, what is it now 

0.00005 for every ten quid spend and when you’ve amassed 500 you get a quid voucher back  to spend if you spend twenty quid or more lol

bit like my petrol voucher took me five years to get £20 back lol

[wearecity]

Thankfully we do have some who are 100% helpful and we have benefitted from quite a few resources.

I do think some people, don't have any interest in emulation. Sometimes there are even conversations about machines and how they'd love to play them again and you think, it's been emulated perfectly for years, so you can. Yes it's not the physical machine, but it plays 100% the same.

Then some who do like emulation, think, that a DX in particular, of a machine, will either devalue their machine or even make them want to sell it. We do suddenly see a lot of machines on Ebay, after they have got a DX.

I think emulation in DX form, has the best chance, of preserving a machine, in a playable state.

[barcrest junky]

ROMs are an absolute bug-bear of mine with this.  The FME community has, through Geddy and many others, sourced, purchased, dumped and catalogued these valuable resources and freely give them up as open soucre on a quid-pro-quo basis.  It helps our community and it helps collectors of real machines when the battery on the board has had a midnight feast.  It pains me when I see an old machine turn up and the owner isn't willing to have the ROMs dumped and backed up for all eternity.  Always my thought is "what if this is the last example of this machine in existence and then a power surge causes them to fry and be lost forever".

I think AMOT had the MMM Maygay machine Nudge Bug and sold it to JPM Stu.  I have asked Stu so many times for these to be dumped and he refuses as he got called a stupid cunt at the Mecca many times.  In his view the grief he suffered means he isn't amenable to supply resources.  Gutted as this was a fabulous machine in its day and I suspect it is the last of its kind so when it dies, as it will, any chance of emulation dies with it.

[serene02]

That's why I often offer a cash incentive, rightly or wrongly.  I find a cash incentive is usually not ignored

If I want the resources that badly I'm often willing to part with some cash as you never know if you will get the chance again.

J

Edited June 6, 2021 by serene02

[Tommy c]

Did the scene ask for cash when they got a software copy for their machine? No. we go out our way to help them get the best result for their games. Really do find it strange that people can be so selfish about these things.

[vectra666]

2 minutes ago, Tommy c said:

Did the scene ask for cash when they got a software copy for their machine? No. we go out our way to help them get the best result for their games. Really do find it strange that people can be so selfish about these things.

I suppose it’s the risk factor if you paid like Steve fruities, through the nose for a fruit upwards of £500 would you risk shagging up the roms/brains that control your expensive rare Machine, but it works both ways if you’ve an expensive machine and it’s boards fucked everything up including roms you’d be begging the fme scene for a fresh set

what annoys me most is the lack of photos for these machines we ask these guys for them and they mostly refuse now it’s not as if the camera is going to peel the artwork 

there’s be many that have giving very generously a few via the mecca the latest for me was @MattyL great images (I still have treasure island tucked away to do one day) of all his machines. 
roms fair enough can do damage but images imo are free and only take a few minutes 

[slasher]

Gathered a few resources myself over the years, roms, glasses, pictures, scans, flyers, manuals, etc. Pissed me off when I had uploaded a manual to the Mecca only to find I couldn't re download onto a different device it when I needed to.

Not a lot but every little helps. Kind of lost interest now to be honest but if the opportunity came about I'd still grab stuff and forward to the relevant people.

Edited June 6, 2021 by slasher

[Retrofruit]

It's a tough call because I understand both sides of the equation here having purchased and provided roms in the past and also owning a small collection of machines. The point Vectra has made about worrying your incredibly rare machine will break is a valid one. Even if someone is taking due care it's not unheard of for a leg to break off a chip when trying to prise it out of the socket, don't forget that some of these chips are now 40 years old and have been stored in sheds/barns with the extremes of burning summers and freezing winters. It's actually testament to the original design of EPROMs that even with a lot of abuse they can still hold a perfect copy of the data even after decades of use. However having said that even a broken chip leg is not necessarily an unrecoverable situation depending on where the break is and whether the pin is actually necessary to dump the content.

The risks for me in not getting roms dumped outweigh the rewards for precisely the reasons given above. it's like having all your critical data on a single hard drive with no backup. There also seems to be a certain regression in machine design in the recent iterations where I often see posts on the facebook help groups of people asking for roms just because their battery ran out and this has erased or corrupted the game in some way - wouldn't expect that to happen in the 21st century but happen it does. You would also be surprised just how many fakes there are out there where the chip ID doesn't match what's printed on the chip body. I would say around 20% of the roms I have dumped the ID's don't match. Another reason to get them dumped and preserved.

I would also add another thing. One aspect that is often overlooked is that roms sometimes don't get dumped if there are already roms available. Some owners have no concept that the machine they own has a number of different versions of the software for it. So I would always encourage everyone to dump every rom they can get their hands on even if a machine is already emulated. That's how the hidden gems turn up, early emptiable roms etc.

[CompostCORNER]

I've not been a massive contributer of resources although in the early days, I did venture out with the camera getting decent photos of fruit machines in the wild. I've also chipped in for group machine buys in the past. But even resource gathering can be spirit breaking....

 Some years ago, I was approached via a PM from someone on the scene who had obtained the roms for a machine that I considered one of my top 5 games of all time. This person knew I had a massive hard-on for this game. The game was one that the scene needed and was often asked to be emulated. I was so excited that they had emerged. It hadn't been emulated and I knew how to create classic layouts. Dare I say that I felt a great deal of excitement that I could bring this game to the scene. My 5 minutes of glory... I was told that for £40 I could have the rom dump. I presumed that this is what you had to do to get rare roms dumped. And to be honest, i thought getting these roms was worth the money. I transfered the money, got the roms and set about creating the layout.

 Shortly after I released the game, it became apparent that I was not the only person who had these roms. Not only that but someone else on the scene, a highly respected member who has contributed much more to this scene then most of us, and certainly me, had these roms and was going to release this game himself. The whole episode was distressing for me. How could have I gone from feeling fantastic that I had brought this game to the scene, to total shock that I had messed up big style by standing on the feet of someone else whom unbeknown to me, had the roms and was to bring the game out himself. I still don't know wether i was deliberately misled and scammed out of £40 just to piss someone else off, or wether it was a genuine cock-up that led to me pissing someone off.

Even today, that episode still leaves a bad taste.

[serene02]

People will always try and exploit people, especially with the promise of something they know you want.  That's pretty shitty about being sold a dump of roms, shame on that member.

J

Edited June 7, 2021 by serene02

[vectra666]

I see Steve lancette aka Steve’s fruits  just got bfm cash force in similar to cash attraction YouTube vid of it

[Retrofruit]

14 hours ago, CompostCORNER said:

I've not been a massive contributer of resources although in the early days, I did venture out with the camera getting decent photos of fruit machines in the wild. I've also chipped in for group machine buys in the past. But even resource gathering can be spirit breaking....

 Some years ago, I was approached via a PM from someone on the scene who had obtained the roms for a machine that I considered one of my top 5 games of all time. This person knew I had a massive hard-on for this game. The game was one that the scene needed and was often asked to be emulated. I was so excited that they had emerged. It hadn't been emulated and I knew how to create classic layouts. Dare I say that I felt a great deal of excitement that I could bring this game to the scene. My 5 minutes of glory... I was told that for £40 I could have the rom dump. I presumed that this is what you had to do to get rare roms dumped. And to be honest, i thought getting these roms was worth the money. I transfered the money, got the roms and set about creating the layout.

 Shortly after I released the game, it became apparent that I was not the only person who had these roms. Not only that but someone else on the scene, a highly respected member who has contributed much more to this scene then most of us, and certainly me, had these roms and was going to release this game himself. The whole episode was distressing for me. How could have I gone from feeling fantastic that I had brought this game to the scene, to total shock that I had messed up big style by standing on the feet of someone else whom unbeknown to me, had the roms and was to bring the game out himself. I still don't know wether i was deliberately misled and scammed out of £40 just to piss someone else off, or wether it was a genuine cock-up that led to me pissing someone off.

Even today, that episode still leaves a bad taste.

I empathise. I spent £300 on a machine which in those days was a fortune, effectively just to get the roms. I got the roms dumped by another highly respected scene member as I had no access to a rom reader at that time. I started work on the layout, all out in the open. Unknown to me the person who dumped the roms sent them to another scene member. Before the layout was ready those roms were then released with yet another scene member claiming thay had worked to get the roms I had paid for and had dumped. When challenged, of course no reply and the scene member started changing their name on forums.

Or how about the time I spent nearly £1000 on job lots of machines to get resources, these resources included a club machine that I desperately wanted to emulate and DX as it was the first clubber I ever got a £250 JP on. The machines went to another scene member who lived local to the seller. In return for my investment I got one scan of one bottom glass then they stopped replying. What happened to the rest of the machines I have no idea - I certainly didn't see any money or resources from them and FME never got the glass based DX it deserved from that clubber either (there was an M1Adness classic though).

Many of the long termers know what FME was like in the 2000's, with people expecting everything instantly and for free, talk of robbing peoples houses for emulators etc, crazy times. Definitely a few who would rob the false teeth from your granny if she dared to yawn.

All contributed to a very dark time for me mentally and one of the reasons I left FME for a number of years. Now I am as self sufficient as possible and have my own reader.

Anyway that's in the distant past but don't think for a second that these things don't keep happening, in recent history I have bought game cards from ebay to dump only for literally the next day after I received it for someone here ask for details about the machine to do a layout. So there are people here, now, who will dump roms and wait until the roms are sold to another unsuspecting scene member before it's made known they are already available.

Don't get me wrong I made some good friends here over the years but it seems that no matter how respected someone appears it doesn't mean they aren't prepared to do you over. So now I am very cautious indeed and trust only about 3 people implicitly.

[barcrest junky]

7 hours ago, vectra666 said:

I see Steve lancette aka Steve’s fruits  just got bfm cash force in similar to cash attraction YouTube vid of it

Steve wont let ROMS go, but if you were to engineer a holiday to Great Yarmouth and ask to see his lock up, he'd almost certainly let you in and take photos and the like. 

[Zippy]

Was reluctant to post but thought I should give you a heads up that Mr Lancett (who supplied the Galaxy resources) is hard work but totally get where he and others who are in a similar position are coming from, him along with others have been messed about so many times due to previous Rom Hunters saying one thing and doing another over the years, those are the ones to blame, yes it is mutually beneficial but when the "don't care" pot comes out ignorance then breeds. It is a two way street and trust has to be earnt if it is abused then they tend to get the hump just like Tommy when he got a blank. My analogy is "You give extra kisses you get bigger hugs".

I'm pissing off now for a bit but will still gather stuff as I do still have a debt to repay.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Big J

[serene02]

I imagine most true enthusiasts of fme have spent money on resources over the years.  It’s a hobby so of course we have. I’ve paid people to dump roms for me in the past, I’ve arranged meetings with arcade owners and paid them to let me dump roms, it’s just what you do if you want the resources.

I never expect anything for free, these resources all have historic value.

J

[dad]

Anyone remember the PEN1 saga?  Not good!

I've only ever provided one sound rom from my own machine for the scene which Gary kindly sorted for me via Daysleeper!  Apart from that I've sourced 100s of roms by various means plus quite a few photos I've taken myself. 

I have to say I've had nothing but full support when I've asked for resources in the past and I can't really see why some people are so tight.  Luckily we still have people who are more than happy to keep providing resources.  Without this the FME scene would have dried up years ago

[Retrofruit]

1 hour ago, Big J said:

Was reluctant to post but thought I should give you a heads up that Mr Lancett (who supplied the Galaxy resources) is hard work but totally get where he and others who are in a similar position are coming from, him along with others have been messed about so many times due to previous Rom Hunters saying one thing and doing another over the years, those are the ones to blame, yes it is mutually beneficial but when the "don't care" pot comes out ignorance then breeds. It is a two way street and trust has to be earnt if it is abused then they tend to get the hump just like Tommy when he got a blank. My analogy is "You give extra kisses you get bigger hugs".

I'm pissing off now for a bit but will still gather stuff as I do still have a debt to pay.

I have followed Steve via various channels for many years but haven't met him in person yet. He obviously has a huge passion for it and has driven all over the country collecting. It is difficult to fathom a situation where a collector of such magnitude doesn't have a rom reader of their own so hopefully is at least taking backup copies of the roms at least for personal use. I don't know if that's the case here or not but rom readers aren't the massive expense they used to be, a sub £50 device widely available like the TL866II plus should certainly cover 1990's onwards (can't speak for 80's as I don't have any) so if he doesn't have one it would seem a low risk high reward purchase.

In terms of trust we just have to accept that individuals have different comfort levels and part of that can be related to monetary outlay and fear of damage. Thankfully there have been some incredibly co-operative people in FME over the years and I have to make a special mention here for RussDX. He didn't know me from the next guy but when I heard he had sold it he let me drive to his house and strip his blue EastEnders down, scan the lot on site and rebuild it, literally the night before it was being collected. FME got a fairly decent DX out of it which no doubt Russ also enjoyed. You could probably count on one hand the number of owners that would let something like that happen.

[Mort]

9 minutes ago, Retrofruit said:

FME got a fairly decent DX out of it

Pah! it was OK, suffered with a lack of attention to detail I thought

[Retrofruit]

1 minute ago, Mort said:

Pah! it was OK, suffered with a lack of attention to detail I thought

I'll do better next time I promise

[Zippy]

15 minutes ago, Retrofruit said:

I have followed Steve via various channels for many years but haven't met him in person yet. He obviously has a huge passion for it and has driven all over the country collecting. It is difficult to fathom a situation where a collector of such magnitude doesn't have a rom reader of their own so hopefully is at least taking backup copies of the roms at least for personal use. I don't know if that's the case here or not but rom readers aren't the massive expense they used to be, a sub £50 device widely available like the TL866II plus should certainly cover 1990's onwards (can't speak for 80's as I don't have any) so if he doesn't have one it would seem a low risk high reward purchase.

In terms of trust we just have to accept that individuals have different comfort levels and part of that can be related to monetary outlay and fear of damage. Thankfully there have been some incredibly co-operative people in FME over the years and I have to make a special mention here for RussDX. He didn't know me from the next guy but when I heard he had sold it he let me drive to his house and strip his blue EastEnders down, scan the lot on site and rebuild it, literally the night before it was being collected. FME got a fairly decent DX out of it which no doubt Russ also enjoyed. You could probably count on one hand the number of owners that would let something like that happen.

He does have a huge passion and with what he has gathered and spent, you can hardly blame him, the bridge between the real world and the emulation one has had its fair share of problems and you don't have to be here 20 years to know that, it is all well and good knowing how to use an Eprom reader but there is a couple of risks I can see, damaged via post or someone puts them in wrong but there are readers that won't wipe them if wrongly inserted it just takes a little time and patience, I was even prepared to drive to him then Tony then Steve then home if needs be, it may of only been one small set of resources but it meant more than gold pressed latinum to me so would of gone to extreme lengths, it was more personal than just getting it here which would of happened anyway no matter what and like Steve said to me if he needs it back at anytime which I doubt as it has been sold I would go out of my way to make sure he got it as long as it does not go against the grain with anyone or any sites.

Trust, loyalty and a few drinks goes a long way, it has been a near 2 year tennis match but will tell you it was truly worth it and it opens up more possibilities.

[serene02]

Every fruit machine collector should invest time and learn how to hack up their assets.  I’ve found over the years that collectors aren’t too bothered about the rom revision it’s more about the machine to them.  It’s usually the people that played machines to win and have first hand experience with those delicious early rom versions that want to hunt them down  

J